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EasternStandard · 25/03/2024 08:18

WickedSerious · 25/03/2024 07:36

JFC,not this nitwit again.

It looks like she’ll have more say soon and those views impact policy. You’ll likely be thinking this more often.

Starmer’s take the public with you hide behind lawyerly nonsense and Rayner

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/03/2024 08:08

IIRC the law around the GRC also makes exceptions for areas where women need protection, dignity or privacy - so men, no matter how they identify, can be refused access to women's changing rooms, toilets, etc, because these are areas where women are vulnerable and require privacy and dignity.

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/03/2024 08:05

Justme56 · 24/03/2024 22:41

I forgot to attach. Obviously everything depends on context so shouting you’re a man in the workplace would likely be seen as harassment as would shouting you are a terf. But my understanding is that it’s more about treating someone as if they are a woman when it comes to the law, rather than forcing people to believe they are one - if that makes sense.

Thank you - this is what I have understood the GRC to confer. A "legal fiction" which prevents anyone for being discriminated against because of their preferred "gender" - it doesn't say that the law now declares a man a woman, nor a woman a man, in every sense.

Like much other legislation concerning the trans debate and protected characteristics of individuals, it has been deliberately manipulated and misinterpreted to be what TRAs want it it be, rather than what it legally is, for so long, and to such an extent, that the lie has now, in many people's minds ,become the truth.

(Much like such common fallacies as that a shoal of piranha will skeletonise a cow in 3 minutes - no matter how big the cow or how small the shoal. 3 minutes it is.)

Sausagenbacon · 25/03/2024 07:57

That's interesting. So it does mean that state organisations, like hospitals and prisons, have to treat tw as women?
And non-state organisations are a grey area, so they use their discretion?
I'm trying to unpick this.

WickedSerious · 25/03/2024 07:36

JFC,not this nitwit again.

HagoftheNorth · 25/03/2024 06:37

Thankyou for those legal opinions JustMe56 I think that’s useful for everyone to remember

Original poster
Justme56 · 24/03/2024 22:41

I forgot to attach. Obviously everything depends on context so shouting you’re a man in the workplace would likely be seen as harassment as would shouting you are a terf. But my understanding is that it’s more about treating someone as if they are a woman when it comes to the law, rather than forcing people to believe they are one - if that makes sense.

Angela Rayner in the Guardian
Angela Rayner in the Guardian
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Original poster
Justme56 · 24/03/2024 22:33

The only information that I have which may help are these 2 things from Naomi Cunningham (Barrister) and Michael Foran (Law lecturer).

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 22:18

Cabbagepatchkid2 · 24/03/2024 22:00

Yep. And this could be our deputy PM. Someone who resorts to branding more than half the population (if the last election is anything to go by) “scum” because she hasn’t the vocabulary or brainpower to come up with an intelligent argument.

Scary times.

Show quote history

It's the dehumanising. It is indicative of tribalism and bigotry.

Cabbagepatchkid2 · 24/03/2024 22:00

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 17:38

Anyone who calls other people 'scum' is someone I have no respect for at all.

Yep. And this could be our deputy PM. Someone who resorts to branding more than half the population (if the last election is anything to go by) “scum” because she hasn’t the vocabulary or brainpower to come up with an intelligent argument.

Scary times.

fiftypercentoff · 24/03/2024 21:39

Sausagenbacon · 24/03/2024 19:32

But, just to clarify it for me, isn't this legally correct? Men can, legally, become women. Thanks to the dreadful GRA (brought in by Labour). Which I would like to see repealed.
I don't believe it is possible to change sex. But, legally, you can.
I know it's a dog's dinner, but it's true
But I look forward to being corrected if I'm wrong

I was wondering about this Sausage
What does a corrected birth certificate look like? For example a transwoman with GRC? Does their BC now only say sex female, and is there any referance on the BC to the original sex being male

SirVixofVixHall · 24/03/2024 21:30

Blanketsburg · 24/03/2024 13:17

As with anyone who repeats some version of this statement, it means one of two things.

She either believes it, which means she is stupid; or she doesn't believe it, but is saying it anyway, which means she is a liar. Neither is a good quality in positions of power.

This.

Crankywiddershins · 24/03/2024 20:30

Have any of the regulars been along to ask "but what about the Tories?" yet.

Crankywiddershins · 24/03/2024 20:19

AdamRyan · 24/03/2024 15:58

Yeah, so are the Tories. And the Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru and Lib Dems etc etc.

On this single issue, you can have SDP or Reform. Which one do you fancy?

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Have you heard of the CPGB?

BitWorriedToday · 24/03/2024 19:50

Sorry wrong link 🫤

BitWorriedToday · 24/03/2024 19:48

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Emotionalsupportviper · 24/03/2024 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BitWorriedToday · 24/03/2024 19:44

Theeyeballsinthesky · 24/03/2024 16:37

Reminder of her comments in that Sunday tines interview at the time the Isla Bryson story was all over the news

It's scary to think she might be DPM Confused

AvacadoFieldsForever · 24/03/2024 19:43

IWilloBeACervix · 24/03/2024 18:31

I’d be really interested to hear Raynor’s definition of transition and at which point she believes a man has successfully become a woman.

Any 6ft 5 Squaddie (without any surgery, medication or diagnosis) who says the words “ I am woman” can do whatever they want.

NoSnowdrop · 24/03/2024 19:39

No wonder Labour are losing women.

self-styled “gobby straight talking” Angela can’t stand up for women and girls, they must get loads of support from the trans lobby and it’s laughable that a party like Labour support the lucrative gender industry including biotechnology & pharma corporations from the US.

who knew they’d buy into an ideology that promotes capitalism, destroys lives, transes away the gay, harms women and girls. But here we are.

the “scum” comment was deplorable

Villagetoraiseachild · 24/03/2024 19:34

It sounds like a statement of political expediency, an adoption of the party line, that superficially sounds slicker than Starmer's waffle.

I expect in recent years she's lived in a bubble of privilege and has not experienced any downside of trans ideology on the hard coal face of reality.

Someone needs to ask her how she'd feel about her mother in a mixed hospital ward or prison or her daughter having to share a changing room with a penis haver or losing a place on a sports team.

Sausagenbacon · 24/03/2024 19:32

But, just to clarify it for me, isn't this legally correct? Men can, legally, become women. Thanks to the dreadful GRA (brought in by Labour). Which I would like to see repealed.
I don't believe it is possible to change sex. But, legally, you can.
I know it's a dog's dinner, but it's true
But I look forward to being corrected if I'm wrong

ArabellaScott · 24/03/2024 19:26

Sad fact is that when she talks about strengthening trade unions, I just think : Make misogynists more powerful. Great.

Boiledbeetle · 24/03/2024 19:23

.

Over It Ugh GIF