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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

#FirstDoNoHarm conference 23 March (Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender)

134 replies

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 09:42

Thread for anyone attending or following the live stream.

A variation on waiting for the conference host to start…

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OldCrone · 23/03/2024 14:15

SoupDragonsFriend · 23/03/2024 13:44

This post giving a bit more detail before the event was posted on her blog by a transactivist called Ruth Pearce. She apparently did a PhD in 'how trans health is differently understood within trans community spaces, activist groups and professional literatures, and how this can have important consequences for access to care'.

There are lots of links within the piece and in the wider blog which might be helpful to anyone interested in looking at the transactivism side of things in more depth, including negative articles about the individuals speaking.

https://ruthpearce.net/2024/03/03/rcgp-host-conversion-therapy-conference-in-london-protest-23-march/

Thanks for that link. TRAs showing their hypocrisy as usual. For example this:

Riittakerttu Kaltiala, a Finnish clinician and opponent of affirmative care who contributed evidence for Florida’s ban on medical transition for young trans people. I have not found any evidence that Kaltiala opposed Finland’s policy of forced sterilisation as a condition of legal recognition for trans people, which was repealed only last year, but am willing to be corrected on this.

Complaints about 'forced sterilisation' from people who want children to be given puberty blocking drugs so that they never reach sexual maturity and are effectively sterilised as children. And at the link it says the actual requirement is having a year of opposite sex hormones, so not forced sterilisation at all.

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 14:10

SoupDragonsFriend · 23/03/2024 13:44

This post giving a bit more detail before the event was posted on her blog by a transactivist called Ruth Pearce. She apparently did a PhD in 'how trans health is differently understood within trans community spaces, activist groups and professional literatures, and how this can have important consequences for access to care'.

There are lots of links within the piece and in the wider blog which might be helpful to anyone interested in looking at the transactivism side of things in more depth, including negative articles about the individuals speaking.

https://ruthpearce.net/2024/03/03/rcgp-host-conversion-therapy-conference-in-london-protest-23-march/

Well, if that's indicative of Ruth's open-minded scholarship, I'm failing to be disappointed.

RP's claim:

  • Rachel Cashman, a campaigner against trans inclusion in schools, and supporter of Women’s Declaration International (WDI). Under their former name of Women’s Human Rights Campaign, WDI have openly called for the “elimination […] of the practice of transgenderism”.

What the, tbf, linked document says:

Gender is defined by UN agencies as sex stereotypes, i.e. ‘the roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society at a given time considers appropriate for men and women... These attributes, opportunities and relationships are socially constructed and are learned through socialization processes’ (Gender Equality Glossary, UN Women). The Convention calls for the ‘elimination of prejudices and customary and all other practices which are based on the idea of the inferiority or the superiority of either of the sexes or on stereotyped roles for men and women’ (Article 5). We consider that the practice of transgenderism clearly falls under this article because it is based on stereotyped roles for men and women.

To me, that's rather different.

Similarly, entertaining weasel wording here:

Riittakerttu Kaltiala, a Finnish clinician and opponent of affirmative care who contributed evidence for Florida’s ban on medical transition for young trans people. I have not found any evidence that Kaltiala opposed Finland’s policy of forced sterilisation as a condition of legal recognition for trans people, which was repealed only last year, but am willing to be corrected on this.

And this:

Legal threats are increasingly common from anti-trans campaigners, who argue that cancelling contracts or events constitutes an attack on their “gender critical” views as “protected beliefs”

Yes, true. That would be because people and events are deplatformed. And then the people and organisers point out that this is largely illegal. As for the last, RP might need to consult the Forstater judgment.

Light reading while waiting for the event to restart…

Parliament of Finland where Self ID in Finland is currently being proposed and debated

Self ID in Finland and the awful bigger picture - Trans Writes

Self ID in Finland is on the horizon so we asked a Finnish trans writer to tell us about it and the wider context it exists in. Vilja Heikkilä writes;

https://transwrites.world/self-id-in-finland-and-the-bigger-picture/

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Rightsraptor · 23/03/2024 14:09

Has the 2pm session started? It hasn't on my laptop

2Rebecca · 23/03/2024 14:04

Following live stream. Great so far.

SoupDragonsFriend · 23/03/2024 13:44

This post giving a bit more detail before the event was posted on her blog by a transactivist called Ruth Pearce. She apparently did a PhD in 'how trans health is differently understood within trans community spaces, activist groups and professional literatures, and how this can have important consequences for access to care'.

There are lots of links within the piece and in the wider blog which might be helpful to anyone interested in looking at the transactivism side of things in more depth, including negative articles about the individuals speaking.

https://ruthpearce.net/2024/03/03/rcgp-host-conversion-therapy-conference-in-london-protest-23-march/

PonyPatter44 · 23/03/2024 13:37

No Tories, no SWP!!! That is fucking hilarious, or would be if it wasn't so pathetic.

As someone else said, what would they do if they got inside?

TheTrickyWitch · 23/03/2024 13:27

Such an illuminating contrast to the intelligent, empathetic and measured talks and discussion taking place inside. One of the participants suggested it ought to be livestreamed to the protestors, which would be amazing!

ArabellaScott · 23/03/2024 13:26

https://twitter.com/JamieWhistle/status/1771476052688155033

The police actually look quite rattled here.

https://twitter.com/JamieWhistle/status/1771476052688155033

IcakethereforeIam · 23/03/2024 13:25

Apparently 'no parasan' means 'they shall not pass'. Taken from Spanish anti fascists at the time of the 1st World War.

ArabellaScott · 23/03/2024 13:20

I mean that is very much not 'protesting'. Trying to break into a building in masks, threatening, aggressive, criminal damage. I'm glad to hear there have been arrests made.

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 13:20

The people who styled the even that way knew what they were doing and encouraged the activities depicted in those videos.

Where are the usual stochastic terrorism posters who drop by to lecture FWR posters on wrongthink?

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HeartofSaturdayNight · 23/03/2024 13:16

Thanks for the thread. I couldn’t join today but hope to catch up later.

ArabellaScott · 23/03/2024 13:12

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/03/2024 12:53

This footage from Julie Bindel is absolutely horrifying. The protestors were trying to break in to the Royal College of General Practitioners. They are mostly masked and seem young. What would they have done if they'd got in? What on earth do the protestors think they're going to achieve, behaving like this? Where were the police? https://twitter.com/i/status/1771504525486051352

Jesus Christ.

This is terrorism.

ArabellaScott · 23/03/2024 13:08

Here's the post advertising the protest, describing it as conversio therapy. The third slide is impressively hyperbolic - 'elimination, barbarity, and torture':

https://www.instagram.com/p/C30UKNQM36S/?igsh=MXJiNXpwc2hheHdpOQ%3D%3D

'A far-right, anti-trans medical lobby group are holding their first conference in London.

The Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender (CAN-SG) are advocating against prescribing hormones and lobbying doctors to deny trans youth the healthcare they want and need. Make no mistake, this is conversion therapy

NO PASARAN - Dont let the bastards do this!

📅 Saturday March 23rd
📍Royal Collage of Practioners, 30 Euston Square, NW1 2FB
⏰ 9.30am
🪘 Get loud! Get angry! Bring noise, mask up, and remember your rights!

Join the counter demo outside, make noise, wreak havoc and come together to say full Full Youth Autonomy Now!

We need numbers to show we are NOT a minority so please share

🚫 no cops 🚫 no tories 🚫 no swp'

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/C30UKNQM36S?igsh=MXJiNXpwc2hheHdpOQ%3D%3D

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 12:57

I missed the name of the A&E doctor from Wales but he is raising most of my ongoing concerns about the regional centres (post the closure of GIDS) and who will be staffing them or overseeing their governance.

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RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 12:56

BiologicalKitty · 23/03/2024 12:41

One wonders what it is exactly they are hoping to achieve? I assume an attempt at doxing, but these protests don't stop events from happening on the whole.

mimmymummy being, well, mimmymummy about the protest outside the RCGP.

#FirstDoNoHarm conference 23 March (Clinical Advisory Network on Sex and Gender)
OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/03/2024 12:53

This footage from Julie Bindel is absolutely horrifying. The protestors were trying to break in to the Royal College of General Practitioners. They are mostly masked and seem young. What would they have done if they'd got in? What on earth do the protestors think they're going to achieve, behaving like this? Where were the police? https://twitter.com/i/status/1771504525486051352

https://twitter.com/i/status/1771504525486051352

BiologicalKitty · 23/03/2024 12:41

One wonders what it is exactly they are hoping to achieve? I assume an attempt at doxing, but these protests don't stop events from happening on the whole.

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 12:36

Rightsraptor · 23/03/2024 12:22

@RethinkingLife - I worked with Susan Bewley too!

She's splendid.

Grief, Richard Byngs on the Manchester Indigo Service report. The findings are in line with what a number of us probably suspected but profoundly dispiriting. That and the Boyd Falmouth GP Practice study.

Mental health is strongly a reason for this to be managed in parallel.

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Rightsraptor · 23/03/2024 12:22

@RethinkingLife - I worked with Susan Bewley too!

RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 12:08

SB mentioned Madsen Pirie's How to win every argument

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Every-Argument-Madsen-Pirie/dp/147252912X/r

Margaret McCartney: a stream of references but god back to basics discussion about inadvertently doing harm and overdiagnosis.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Every-Argument-Madsen-Pirie/dp/147252912X/r?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-womens-rights-5034435-firstdonoharm-conference-23-march-clinical-advisory-network-on-sex-and-gender

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RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 11:51

David Wootten's book: Bad Medicine (as mentioned by Susan B)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Medicine-Doctors-Doing-Hippocrates/dp/0199212791

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RethinkingLife · 23/03/2024 11:49

Rightsraptor · 23/03/2024 11:45

Professor (or is he Dr?) Michael Biggs speaking now.

I'm so puzzled by the demonstrators: what do they think is being discussed in there?

I'd always assumed that the vaginoplasty death was related to use of the colon. Ghastly to have it confirmed.

Go Susan Bewley! (Worked with her. Solid sense.)

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ArabellaScott · 23/03/2024 11:47

Wrongthink.

Rightsraptor · 23/03/2024 11:45

Professor (or is he Dr?) Michael Biggs speaking now.

I'm so puzzled by the demonstrators: what do they think is being discussed in there?

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