Sexual harassed DD6 in unisex toilet

Some really sensible advice.

I've experienced bullying, and I've experienced sexual assault. Serious, in both cases.

Of course, neither were experiences I'd wish on anyone. Both have had lasting ramifications. But there is a reason hate legislation exists. To experience bullying which also has a sexual element is highly traumatic. It's what a court of law might deem to be a serious aggravating factor. You'd get a hefier sentence with that aggravating factor than you would without it. That tells you something about the seriousness of the case.

(NB. in case this needs pointing out, or that the above will be twisted in the way you've tried to twist the PP's comment, I'm well aware that 6 is below the age of criminal responsibility. It's a hypothetical analogy of why the sexual element is more serious, both legally and morally. Kids that age lack understanding and therefore lack culpability. But when you're a child and the victim of 'bullying' with sexual undertoes, believe me, you know when something is 'off', even if not exactly why. Ergo, when kids perpetrate it, they'll have something of a similar understanding.

You are not only claiming an equal 'status' between bullying and bullying with a sexual element, but actually suggest the PP is the one playing word-games by 'downplaying' bullying as opposed to a situation with a sexual element.

That's transparent. It's disingenuous. It's the lowest form of defence with which to double down in support of an unconscionable comment.

You should be ashamed. But if you have that degree of insight, I'd be very surprised.

Do you have young children? There is a huge difference between normal childhood curiosity and laughing at another child, and encouraging others to laugh too.

These boys were laughing because they knew this was a private moment they were intruding upon.

If we want fewer teenagers and men who abuse and harass women, we need to address these earlier years incidents firmly.

Calling this sexual harassment is not going to help. 6 year old children are curious and while they need to be taught this is unacceptable and bullying behaviour it doesnt help you to get it dealt with by going overboard.

OP I think actually contacting the NSPCC may be helpful:

Report Abuse in Education Helpline

Young people who have experienced abuse at school and parents and teachers who are concerned about sexual abuse in education settings can call 663 0800 136 663 or email [email protected].

https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-abuse-and-neglect/harmful-sexual-behaviour

How can you teach the safety, dignity and the pants rule and not have consequences for boys who harass girls?

Of course, it was sexual harassment.

OP I'm so sorry for your dd.

This is why women are not safe today. Little boys are taught there are no consequences for these types of actions. They get social status with friends who laugh along. The girls it happens to are too they did something wrong and are left feeling worse by the adults there to protect them dismissive of what happened. So next time someone does something to them the accept it/keep quiet.

It's certainly bullying when she was in a vulnerable position. I would argue it is sexual abuse as abuse is rarely about the sex it's about the power and this incident the boy had the power and that's why he did it. Doesn't really matter if it's sexual abuse or not it needs dealing with doesn't it. To not protest bullying because you feel it's not sexual abuse as OP stated is ridiculous

OP, I haven't RTFT but I'm so sorry this has happened to you and your daughter.

I work in a school and we have boys and girls loos. Any boy who did anything like this would be disciplined for it - I can say this with confidence because we had something similar, though not quite as bad, happen a few years ago.

The school should not get away with this.

We don’t know if this little boy did it because she was a girl or whether he would do it to a boy.

We can, I think, be confident he did it as he knew it was shameful and embarrassing for her to be caught semi-naked/ on the toilet. He wasn’t laughing at her for being seated at a desk was he?

But the important thing is that it is the job of adults to raise boys not to harass girls for their own pleasure. This boy has already been rewarded for his behaviour by his mates laughing along with him. That is a very powerful reward, one that gives him a feeling of acceptance and belonging and status. If the girl was visibly upset, he may have also enjoyed a feeling of power and control. Again, a powerful reward. People repeat behaviours that reward him.

That is why the school needs to take a firm stance on this.

To stop boys sexually harrassing girls, we need to take firm action on early incidents by this. Because if they are doing this for kicks when they are 15, when they have porn and Tate to normalize and celebrate their behaviour, it’s probably already too late to turn them around.

Potentially their actions are more damaging than what the boys did

Agree.

This thread has been very instructive on why we are where we are with regard to the kind of ladder of harassment and abuse women and girls have to navigate. Ultimately, OP, this is where you are and the only part you have control over….

You cannot control the school but you can ensure that she knows that you've got her back on this

In the face of the minimising, excusing and denial that we can all see has happened here on this thread, and is endemic irl, the above is what we can, at least, do.

It's just so awful. Potentially their actions are more damaging than what the boys did.

1. They're teaching her that being bullied is a result of something she has done 'wrong'.
2. That girls are responsible for boys bad behaviour towards them. And they they are to blame when men violate their boundaries.

That's such a damaging message to give to a young child. Not only does it set them up up a world of shit in adulthood- What if, heaven forbid, they ran into a paedophile down the line and thought that any abuse suffered must be their own fault, as a result of what they were taught by adults before!

Tell your daughter that she was in no way to blame for other people's behaviour. That they qre naughty kids who lied to her and that's not her fault. That people do not have the right to do what they did. And that she should always tell you if anything like this happens.

If the DSL is saying shit like that, they aren't fit for the post.

Don't stop complaining. Take it to LEA if you have to.

"They'd have done it to a boy too." Well, firstly I suspect this would have been rather less likely, but secondly, if they did it it would be sexual harassment even then.

If it were a group of adult men doing this there wouldn't be any doubt, would there? Now, little boys aren't as culpable as adult men, but their harmful actions still need dealing with.

So sorry this happened to your daughter. I’d go to the head of school about this behaviour. It’s unacceptable. Planned SH.

Then the head needs to talk to all of the boys and their parents.

You tell your DD what you've told us here in an age-appropriate way:

• That you think that the boys did a naughty thing, especially the one who tricked her by pretending to help.
• That you are talking to the school to find ways to keep her safe, the school aren't being very helpful but you will keep trying.

And you add to that that if anyone looks at her undressed or touches her vulva, she is to tell you immediately.

You cannot control the school but you can ensure that she knows that you've got her back on this.

The 'its her fault for not locking the door' comment made to you makes me feel fucking sick. Its like telling women they deserve to be harassed because they weren't careful enough. Fuck whoever said that to you. They should be fired.

OP you are doing brilliantly. Your DD needs to know most of all that you have her back, and its clear that you do.

People who are qualified in safeguarding need to deal with this in a sensitive and age appropriate manner.

Wishing your DD all the very best. I hope she's okay. And let her know lots of women are angry on her behalf and are willing to fight for her. That's why we're all here, really.

You probably need to have more of a think about what you want the school to do - eg you mention an apology from the boys.

Then, get hold of the school complaints policy and read it carefully. (It may even say that you need to set out what you think will resolve the complaint).

Ask for the matter to be dealt with under that policy. And if you aren’t satisfied with the resolution by the school there is a clear pathway for you to escalate it.

There are responses here that are really saying ‘boys will be boys’, with apparently no sense as to how what these boys did was a microcosmic version of what older boys will also do when they are being boys.

No one is asking the boys to be treated harshly, but for the school to take the incident seriously enough in terms of the children’s understanding.

The OP’s daughter had a horrendous experience. The school needs to learn from what has happened and set up future safeguarding.

I don’t get it

if the upset mother of a traumatised 6 year old thinks that the child has been sexually harassed what is the point of going on and in about how it can’t be sexual harassment

its supposed to be a support thread, make your point then walk away

and then the audacity to tone police

Today I learned that carefully explaining how sexual harassment is about power and that a little girl's vulva being weaponised against her to shame her makes the incident automatically sexual will be slandered as "attack and ridicule".