Maths teacher sacked for refusing to use opposite sex pronouns.

So, part of masking at school in order to fit in?

I am glad she can be herself at home.

It's difficult to know. She really likes the name and I think she somehow associates it with things going more positively now with friends. She missed a year of school owing to autism-related bullying. It took a long time for her confidence to come back, even for her to leave the house.

That's why it's so important that she retains a connection to herself that is based on the reality of who she is.
So no, it's not "neutral" at all in that respect. You're spot on.

In many ways, a name is just a name. But when it comes to this subject, particularly when it's related to adolescent/young people, a name is so much more than that.

The article reads to me that the pupil was deliberately provoking the teacher. Why all the fuss about dead names etc to act as a boy and then wanting to act as a girl? This was an attempt to trap the teacher, a successful attempt which led to the teacher's sacking.
I cannot believe that the authorities have given children the power to sack teachers. Especially when he appears to be the only staff member to reject compelled speech and enforced compliance with an unproven ideology.

As the school is keeping this from the parents it would be the name that they gave the child.

Anyone who has been a teacher knows that all sorts of things which are "nothing to do with the lesson" find their way into the classroom.

In this case, which name you call the child has "nothing to do with the lesson", and you are involved with this whether you like it or not.

When she told us at Christmas time that year, about 3 months after the new name started being used, that she was happy for us to use her normal name at home, I grabbed it with both hands. She's now her normal name at home and with family and friends, and her "neutral" other name at school and activities.

How much of keeping the trans name (because it really isn’t neutral) at school is because she might feel stuck there? That she told everyone this is the new person she is and now it is very difficult to row back from that?

The name issue is really difficult. It sounds like he's not necessarily done a good job of cutting through this in the tribunal.. and could be harming his case as a result. I hope not.

To add a thought from my own perspective. My daughter began using a "neutral" name at school, in a limited and unofficial capacity, without us knowing. Eventually the school told us and we cautiously went along with it, saying yes (we didn't really have much choice, we felt that our hand had somewhat already been forced by the circumstances) to agreeing to it being her "known as" name. Meanwhile, I was busy learning all about this weird new world of gender identity (I had no idea about Mumsnet at this point), following her request for puberty blockers (which we said no to, following what we read on the NHS page about gender dysphoria) about 3 months prior.
As I continued to learn more, I was getting increasingly concerned about this name. Not the name itself but what it represented: an untethering of my daughter from the reality of who she is, a chance to be a blank canvas and reinvent herself in whatever she understood to be her "authentic self". When she told us at Christmas time that year, about 3 months after the new name started being used, that she was happy for us to use her normal name at home, I grabbed it with both hands. She's now her normal name at home and with family and friends, and her "neutral" other name at school and activities. Yes, it's a bit weird but I'm going to keep her as tethered to reality as I can, while she works through whatever is in her head about all of this.
It's possible that something similar to this was behind his concerns about the name e.g. if nobody else was going to help her keep a foot in reality, he would. Whether that's safeguarding or overreach, given he is a teacher not her parent, I'm not sure. But I can fully empathise with the place of concern that it is presumably coming from.

If he really did get sacked and barred from DBS for raising a safeguarding concern (which I believe is the case - there is nothing else that has come out) then safeguarding is dead in schools. All the time and training spent on it is pointless.

If being concerned that social transition is a safeguarding red flag (which the co-morbidities of gender questioning children show is a very reasonable and evidence based point of view) is enough to get you fired and DBS barred then no teacher or member of school staff is going to dare to raise safeguarding concerns any more.

Part of safeguarding best practice is also sharing information which in this case the school seemed to deliberately not do - i.e. they should have shared information with the parents who are the adults legally responsible for their children. The only situation where not sharing is justifiable is also a situation where social services should be involved, which in this case there is no suggestion happened. You can't claim parents are so dangerous they can't be told a key fact such as a child wants to socially transition and also that it's fine to leave the child living in that household - like all of gender ideology it's total illogical nonsense.

I recently had safeguarding training and I pointed out that all the examples given of people who intervened were people who had nothing to lose by doing so. E.g. Victoria Climbie's taxi driver, there was a case of an intern (who was supported by her parents) at an educational establishment so she could just walk away from the internship. People who need their job and a monthly salary can't afford to raise safeguarding concerns. That's just a fact very heavily reinforced by this case.

It's supposed to be the case that you're protected if you raise a good faith safeguarding concern even if you're wrong. What really happens obviously couldn't be further from the truth.

Or it could be like the head teacher who was found to have been unlawfully sacked, for tapping her own toddler son’s hand to gain his attention, a couple of weeks ago.

You could follow Tribunal Tweets rather than Newspapers and find out rather than speculate using a completely different case with a completely different set of circumstances to imply guilt.

This isn’t the only teacher facing tribunal over this this week. Here is another one:

https://christianconcern.com/news/teacher-sacked-for-raising-concern-over-child-transitioning-to-have-case-heard/

I imagine there is much more to this than the newspaper soundbites. Like the teacher who was sacked 'for taking children sledging on a hill near school' who in fact was sacked for disobeying a direct instruction from the HT not to take the children off school grounds and offence he had already had a written warning for taking children out without telling anyone or parents.

You all need to remember it is a confused and vulnerable minor here!

The teacher was refusing to use a boys name because of the vulnerability of minors. That is why he considered it a safeguarding issue.

It’s the kind of thing that can start and stick really young, and a teacher can help resist.

You’re always going to slip up, though. Call a child by the wrong name, or the nickname everyone uses but which is inappropriate …

Re: Melons, I went to school with a girl whose surname was Apps but who was referred to as Bapps, first by the boys and then by herself, on account of her large breasts. To this day, the surname she uses on her Facebook is Bapps, this was 25 years ago.

So a 'confused and vulnerable minor' but do what they want or you'll be fired and struck off the register it seems?

There is nothing fundamental about a name.

In these contexts there really is. If you don’t understand that, you don’t really understand what’s going on.

But using the preferred name of a student is by definition 'giving attention'. Not using the preferred name and pronouns so it becomes 'a thing' is also giving attention.

It's win-win for the student and lose-lose for the teacher.

I feel very sorry for teachers who have to navigate this.

What name would be used on end of term reports ? (if there is still such a thing)

@OldCrone ,

‘How do you create a healthy happy learning environment for all the children when you are participating in the fantasies of some of them that they have changed sex?’

But you’re not, which is where you are going wrong here. You are literally calling them by their current preferred name.

Most pupils don’t care and just want to learn and do well in their exams. They probably think that ‘John’ is attention-seeking. The last thing they want is for their teacher to give her precisely what she wants by challenging her name, leading to a protracted discussion and very little Maths being done (well some would actually love this, but for all the wrong reasons).

By just casually using the new name and moving on, you are not affirming anything. If you make a big deal if it, it just opens up the whole ‘transitioning’ debate to the class.

Anyone who has taught a subject at secondary (especially hard Science or Maths) would know that there is no reason to get involved, it has nothing to do with the lesson.

"Teaching in a classroom is not about engendering your views, however right they may be, it is about teaching a subject and creating a healthy happy learning environment."

How do you create a healthy happy learning environment for all the children when you are participating in the fantasies of some of them that they have changed sex?

What is the effect on the children whose fantasies are being affirmed?

What is the effect on other children who don't believe that it's possible to change sex? How can this be a happy healthy environment for them when they know that teachers are lying to them? How can they raise any concerns about this ideology when teachers are actively participating in it?

Are you saying I didn’t know a busty 17yr old who was introducing herself as Melons? I most certainly did, though not at her school.

And if you start agreeing to call kids whatever they ask without challenge, there are going to be issues.

In this case, a girl was attempting to transition without her parents being aware.

She then totally confuzzled the teacher by entering a girls’ math contest.

With time and opportunity I’d develop a plan to address it. In the heat of the moment I would make mistakes. I wouldn’t deserve to be struck off for it.

@Newbutoldfather "Teaching in a classroom is not about engendering your views, however right they may be, it is about teaching a subject and creating a healthy happy learning environment."

Except that it's becoming clearer and clearer that a policy of blanket affirmation maximises short-term health and happiness over medium- and long- term.

It's time to push back.

I think I'd have been completely thrown when this girl who everyone is pretending is a boy asked to enter the girl-only competition.

Some things that might have gone through my head:

"We're supposed to pretend she's a boy. Will I be accused of transphobia if I say she can enter?"

"If I say she can't enter because she's a boy, will I be accused of transphobia?"

"If I say yes, will some of the boys ask why they can't enter, because she's apparently a boy just like them?"

"If I say no because she's a boy, will some of the boys start saying they're girls so that they can enter?"

"Has she now changed her mind and decided she's a girl after all?"

All this would have happened in the few seconds between her saying she wanted to enter and me having to decide whether to add her name (which name?) to the list.

I think I'd end up thinking "fuck it, I'm doomed" and making a quick decision, aware that no matter what I did it would probably be wrong in some way.

But the school leadership seem to have abandoned him (as well as abandoning safeguarding and rationality).

He was left in a position where he was effectively forced by the school to affirm the child's trans identity, when he thought this was detrimental to her and should be discussed with the parents.

So he seems to have been left with 3 choices:

1. Go along with what the school demanded, even though he believed this wasn't in the child's best interests.
2. Do what he thought was appropriate and best for the child, even though it went against the school.
3. Resign.

My school’s policy was to call everyone by their surname. Fortunately there was no Smellie in my year. I’m not sure whether there was any leeway for teachers to avoid that sort of dilemma. A few teachers used nicknames, not necessarily with the consent of the pupils. For example, one teacher consistently called Wiseman “Wiseacre”. I don’t know whether Wiseman minded, but he survived.