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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Hate Crime Bill - information and resources.

244 replies

ArabellaScott · 19/03/2024 20:39

Well. Here we go.

Disclaimer: I don't have any special expertise or knowledge. Check everything for yourself.

The Bill:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/contents/enacted

PART 1 Aggravation of offences by prejudice

PART 2 Offence of racially aggravated harassment

PART 3 Offences relating to stirring up hatred

It's part three that is most relevant to women and feminists.

I'll just paste the whole of Part 3:

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or

(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and

(b)either—

(i)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or

(ii)a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.

(2)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive, or

(ii)communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive, and

(b)in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to a characteristic mentioned in subsection (3).

(3)The characteristics are—

(a)age,

(b)disability,

(c)religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,

(d)sexual orientation,

(e)transgender identity,

(f)variations in sex characteristics.

(4)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to show that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable.

(5)For the purposes of subsection (4), in determining whether behaviour or communication was reasonable, particular regard must be had to the importance of the right to freedom of expression by virtue of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, including the general principle that the right applies to the expression of information or ideas that offend, shock or disturb.

(6)For the purposes of subsection (4), it is shown that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable if—

(a)evidence adduced is enough to raise an issue as to whether that is the case, and

(b)the prosecution does not prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is not the case.

(7)For the purposes of subsections (1)(a)(i) and (2)(a)(i), a person’s behaviour—

(a)includes behaviour of any kind and, in particular, things that the person says, or otherwise communicates, as well as things that the person does,

(b)may consist of—

(i)a single act, or

(ii)a course of conduct.

(8)For the purposes of subsections (1)(a)(ii) and (2)(a)(ii), the ways in which a person may communicate material to another person are by—

(a)displaying, publishing or distributing the material,

(b)giving, sending, showing or playing the material to another person,

(c)making the material available to another person in any other way.

(9)A person who commits an offence under this section is liable—

(a)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both), or

(b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or a fine (or both).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/contents/enacted

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ArabellaScott · 22/03/2024 10:36

I wanted to post this part of the Act:

(7)A person is a member of a group defined by reference to transgender identity if the person is—

(a)a female-to-male transgender person,

(b)a male-to-female transgender person,

(c)a non-binary person,

(d)a person who cross-dresses,

and references to transgender identity are to be construed accordingly.

(part 4, 'the characteristics')

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14

'Cross dressing'. What does this actually mean?

I am wearing trousers and a jumper right now. Is this cross dressing?

Am I transgender on the basis of trousers?

Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

An Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision about the aggravation of offences by prejudice; to make provision about an offence of racially aggravated harassment; to make provision about offences relating to stirring up hatred against a group of...

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14

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LoveandMoney · 21/03/2024 13:28

Thank you ArabellaScott this is invaluable once again.

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2024 13:24

Rainbowshit · 21/03/2024 12:44

Age is one of the hate crime characteristics isn't it? Can we report all the TRAs who show disdain for middle aged women for hate crimes?

The police are going to receive an absolute deluge on April 1st.

You can report anonymously right? 😉

Yes. It can just be perceived ageism, its your perception that counts.

And yes, online reports can be made anonymously. I can't recall what the guidance said about IP addresses, though.

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magicmole · 21/03/2024 13:17

Heylo · 19/03/2024 22:51

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)the person—

(i)behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting,

jesus Christ. 2 major issues already

(1) that a person commits an offence based on the offended considers it ‘insulting’. People insult each other all the time. That’s actually terrifying

(2) TRAs are not reasonable, they are nuts

In England and Wales the law has gone the other way. S5 of the Public Order Act 1986 used to include words, behaviour, or displays which were “insulting.”

But various groups (on the Left and on the Right politically, from Liberty to Tory MPs), including Parliament's own Joint Committee on Human Rights argued for years that language or behaviour that 's merely “insulting” shouldn't be criminalised. And when the law was updated about ten years ago, the "insulting" bit was dropped.

It's so subjective (and broad) it worries me that Scotland has chosen to reintroduce it.

Rainbowshit · 21/03/2024 12:47

I suspect I will replace my current writing to my MSPs with being a hate crime monitor.

Ross Greer finally did reply to me today with what is clearly a copy paste response that addresses issues I didn't even raise

Thank you for writing to me about this sensitive and important issue. I’ve found it quite sad and frustrating that so much misinformation has been spread in relation to this issue, often as part of a wider campaign to delegitimize the very existence of trans people.

The Scottish Greens are clear in our support of the rights of transgender and non-binary people. These rights in no way conflict with our equally strong support for the rights and protections of women and girls. Trans women and girls in particular are some of the most vulnerable people in society, deserving of respect, dignity and safety.

The Scottish Prison Service’s new policy on trans people in custody sets out an individualised approach which ensures that any transgender woman with a history of violence against women and girls, who presents a risk to women and girls, will not be placed in the women’s estate. Where SPS has insufficient information about an individual who is arriving into custody, they will be admitted in accordance with their sex at birth. SPS also retains the ability to admit and accommodate individuals with a Gender Recognition Certificate in accordance with their sex at birth, if it is considered necessary to support people’s safety and wellbeing.

With regard to objections to the designation ‘non-transgender’, I certainly agree that this is an awkward formulation, though I can’t see that phrase used in the policy document detailing the management of transgender people in prisons.

The usual and straightforward term for someone who is not trans would be cisgender, or cis. Trans and cis are standard prefixes used in a range of contexts, including but not just in regards to gender. One of the most common and benign examples would be cis and trans fats in relation to food and diets.

Unfortunately a myth has been perpetuated over the last few years that this technical term is somehow a slur or derogatory, and so alternatives are sometimes sought. This does not imply any ranking between cis and trans women, who share rights to safety, dignity and respect, including freedom from offensive or misgendering language.

I appreciate that we might disagree on some of these issues, but I thank you for sharing your views with me. Please do not hesitate to contact me if there is anything else I can do to help.

Kind regards,

Ross Greer MSP
Ross Greer MSP
Scottish Green Party
West of Scotland

38 Stewart Street, Milngavie, G62 6BY

I aim at all times to operate best practice in complying with the requirements of the General Data Protection Regulation (EU) 2016/679 (the GDPR), the Data Protection Act 1998 and any Act that replaces the Data Protection Act. You can find details of my privacy policy heree^.


From:
Sent: 29 February 2024 12:16
To: Greer R (Ross), MSP
Subject: Letter from your constituent

This message was also sent to: Neil Bibby MSP, Russell Findlay MSP, Paul O'Kane MSP, Jamie Greene MSP, Katy Clark MSP, Pam Gosal MSP

Email:

Thursday 29 February 2024

Dear Ross Greer, Pam Gosal, Katy Clark, Neil Bibby, Russell Findlay, Paul O'Kane and Jamie Greene,

I am extremely disturbed to hear that Scarlet Blake will have his crimes recorded as having being committed by a female.

Scarlet is biologically male and legally male and will be held in a male prison.

It is disrespectful to his victim to have his murder recorded as being committed by a female. It is also disrespectful to females as a sex class.

Why does respecting a criminal murderer come above respecting the victim and females?

Females commit very few murders. One male being recorded in the female class will distort the statistics by 5%.

Further details here:

https://x.com/richardjgarside/status/1763134595749314596?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

Can I ask for your commitment to ensure that the integrity of our statistics is maintained and that crimes are recorded by biological sex rather than gender?

Yours sincerely,

Rainbowshit · 21/03/2024 12:44

Age is one of the hate crime characteristics isn't it? Can we report all the TRAs who show disdain for middle aged women for hate crimes?

The police are going to receive an absolute deluge on April 1st.

You can report anonymously right? 😉

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2024 12:14

If anyone is curious how this new law may be misused - it's not yet April and activists are already trying to use the law to attack people:

A Twitter account 'Let Actual Women Speak' claims that misgendering will be a 'hate crime' in Scotland from April the 1st, urges followers to report anonymously online.

'Trans women are real women. From the 1st of April in Scotland to say otherwise is a hate crime.'

'jkrowling is abusive and belongs in jail.'

https://twitter.com/LAWS_28

'Please help Sophie Sparkles. Complain to Police Scotland here. https://scotland.police.uk/secureforms/po'

Are Police Scotland ready for mass reports from Twitter? What if someone actually needs the police for a serious matter, and they are tied up with this?

https://twitter.com/LAWS_28

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Rainbowshit · 21/03/2024 09:06

I'm thinking that many of the MSPs will just be constantly reported for hate crimes. The abuse they get on Twitter will likely be replicated in hate crime reporting. It's going to be an absolute shitshow.

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ArabellaScott · 21/03/2024 06:55

https://archive.is/7nJ74

Police Scotland training includes a fictionalised feminist campaigner calling for 'gas chambers' and Munroe Bergdorf calling women's fears 'ludicrous'.

The Police are being trained by activists to think feminism is a hate crime.

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Heylo · 20/03/2024 21:29

I don’t see how this will hold. They will have so many women defying it, there’ll be public outcry and this law will be dead and buried.

it’s remarkable how TRAs got this far. As soon as they start speaking about the entirety of their demands they sound like loose canons (TIMs accessing all female spaces inc refuges, prisons etc).

im a lesbian, it’s soooooo depressing to see what they have done to the gay and bisexual community. They’re at every single social & they have found pick - me girls who will ram their agenda down anyones throats. Myself and so many other lesbians and bi women I know now self exclude.

IcakethereforeIam · 20/03/2024 13:08

Andrew Doyle has an article in Unherd

https://unherd.com/newsroom/will-the-snps-new-hate-crime-bill-get-me-arrested/

This bit from the end

Well, maybe we’ll find out even sooner. Comedy Unleashed is currently looking into producing a special event in Scotland on 1 April to coincide with the implementation of the new bill. We’ll be platforming some reliably “problematic” comedians, and there’ll be plenty of wrongthink on display. Of course, this very much depends on us securing a venue that won’t cancel at the last minute, so please do email us ([email protected]) if you can help. In these authoritarian times, we could all do with a laugh.

Will the SNP's new hate crime bill get me arrested?

“Police told to target comics under new hate crime law.” This was the rather alarming headline on the front cover of yesterday’s Herald, and it concerned leaked materials from recent training sessions undertaken by the Scottish police. Officers are bei...

https://unherd.com/newsroom/will-the-snps-new-hate-crime-bill-get-me-arrested

ÉowynsSword · 20/03/2024 12:36

Thanks! Oh god, right okay I'm going to do that. I actually can't believe it but in 2024 in what is apparently meant to be a democratic country, I'm going to have to set up a new email that's not got my real name on it and re register with a site I love using for parenting tips and I'm doing it because of this mad law.

I feel like I'm having some sort of mad fever dream!

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2024 12:30

A Mumsnet employee doxxed members before.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/986693530302205954.html

And serial litigant Stephanie Hayden successfully sued Mumsnet to reveal a member's reg'd name (luckily this turned out to be a made up one).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6912343/Transgender-activist-claims-information-given-Mumsnet-misleading.html

So, yes. I would say it is sensible to set up a new account using a burner email with details that are not connected to your real identity.

I'm sorry you are feeling scared, and same for Rainbowshit. I am also uneasy.

I'm also absolutely furious at what the arseholes in power have done to this country.

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ÉowynsSword · 20/03/2024 12:06

Apologies if this is a stupid question @ArabellaScott (maybe now there are no stupid questions). But do I need to create a new email address even to post on here from 1st April? It's my personal email with my name, I'm honestly feeling totally scared and paranoid now living in Scotland and being Scottish. I now feel like I'm in a dystopian nightmare. All for believing in (actually scratch believing in; KNOWING THE TRUTH OF) biological reality.

Rainbowshit · 20/03/2024 11:59

Arabella Ross Greer is one of my MSPs. Do I need to say more? 🙈

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2024 11:50

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68605029

'Tony Lenehan KC, president of Faculty of Advocates Criminal Bar Association, said the public knowing what is and what is not a crime is a "vital part of any modern democracy".
"Where the new statute is woven with threads of subjectivity, the broadcasters, after dinner speakers, comedians, debaters and dramatists must trust to luck that they don't end up being prosecuted under it," he told BBC Scotland.
Mr Lenehan said most of the behaviour tackled by the hate crime legislation "would already be a crime" as public order offences, or using specific aggravations such as crimes involving religion and race.
"My fear is that this legislation is driven by the hope of a PR coup, from passing pleasingly populist sounding laws," he said.'

police scotland

Hate crimes: police will not 'target performers'

Police Scotland say they will respond to all hate crime complaints but not look for offending material.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68605029

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ArabellaScott · 20/03/2024 11:46

Rainbowshit · 20/03/2024 07:14

I'm absolutely terrified. I write to my MSPs on a frequent, almost monthly basis regarding gender ideology!showing them evidence of the harms of self ID. I can't do that anymore can I?

It depends on your MSP. And their staff, I suppose.

But yes, this will have a chilling effect right across all social and public interactions. Through the arts, all discourse, education, media, local politics, national politics, etc.

As noted by more than one commentator above, it's the chilling effect that is really the crucial factor. Scotland is going to become a bit more like post WW2 East Germany, or Cultural Revolutionary-era China.

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EasternStandard · 20/03/2024 09:39

Rainbowshit · 20/03/2024 07:14

I'm absolutely terrified. I write to my MSPs on a frequent, almost monthly basis regarding gender ideology!showing them evidence of the harms of self ID. I can't do that anymore can I?

I’m so sorry you are facing this it’s unconscionable

I fear similar here

stealtheatingtunnocks · 20/03/2024 07:27

Swaine, Jennifer swaine, not Jennifer steamie!

stealtheatingtunnocks · 20/03/2024 07:26

What happens when you are arrested? They hold you at the station and question you? Jennifer steamie was questioned at 1am or somrhing ridiculous. So they can hold me over a weekend or public holiday and question me when I should be sleeping?

can I take a book or knitting or so I just sit in the cell tik they take me to be questioned?

my knowledge of police process comes from The bill, which might not be sufficient.

Rainbowshit · 20/03/2024 07:14

I'm absolutely terrified. I write to my MSPs on a frequent, almost monthly basis regarding gender ideology!showing them evidence of the harms of self ID. I can't do that anymore can I?

ArabellaScott · 20/03/2024 07:07

It is terrifying Heylo.

I know lots of brave women and men are planning to defy the law, but frankly I'm not looking forward to living with the threat of getting hauled off by a police force weaponised to do the bidding of any random who makes an anonymous report.

There is greater risk for anyone who's publically gender critical, but tbh the risk is there for absolutely every Scottish citizen. This law will be there to be abused by any gossip, mentally unstable person or vindictive ex, any mischievous child, etc.

There is no threshold and no need for evidence.

Report anonymously online and the police will investigate.

The crucial thing is the police guidance.

I do wonder if the police, who have raised concerns about the bill since it was in Parliament, are well aware of how stupid the law is and expecting it to be demonstrated as unworkable quite quickly.

Meanwhile, we are living in a country that feels horribly authoritarian, dystopian, and opaque. Its a very far cry from the positive place we had imagined a few years ago

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