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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What are my rights ad a teacher?

30 replies

BetterBee · 17/03/2024 06:48

Hello, I was wondering if fellow teachers or those with knowledge on the subject could help me. I'm just wondering if I must follow the school’s guidance relating to trans rights, pronouns etc.

I had to teach a 15 minute session to my form on using preferred pronouns and had guidance on the pre prepared powerpoint that basically was telling the kids it's okay to forget but basically you must use them. I didn't deliver it exactly as they planned!

I would also want to refuse to use a child's preferred pronouns if I believed it wasn't in their best interest.

I basically wondering if I'd lose my job over it.

OP posts:
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MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/03/2024 12:28

WarriorN · 17/03/2024 10:36

That's where it's most problematic @AllProperTeaIsTheft, if the children in the class are themselves believers.

Which is why the whole thing needs to be reigned in for under 16s completely.

Th rest of your approach is how we always were taught to approach challenging discussions and debates and is good teaching practice.

It defies belief that teachers have been instructed to abandon all the requirements for political impartiality. To impose queer theory dogma on children that's promoted by organisations where just a quick google will demonstrate safeguarding breaches (eg Mermaids & Stonewall).

I've huge admiration for teachers who are managing to resist this. But things will change following the banning of puberty blockers for children by the NHS. This allows for parents and teachers to legitimately challenge why groups promoting the sterilisation of children are in schools. They all nailed their colours to the mast in recent weeks that safeguarding children is the least of their concerns compared to the desirability of selling sex change to them.

Makes it easier when they tell us who they really are.

WarriorN · 17/03/2024 10:36

That's where it's most problematic @AllProperTeaIsTheft, if the children in the class are themselves believers.

Which is why the whole thing needs to be reigned in for under 16s completely.

Th rest of your approach is how we always were taught to approach challenging discussions and debates and is good teaching practice.

Ofcourseshecan · 17/03/2024 10:34

KERALA1 · 17/03/2024 08:32

Had this recently. Dd put her hand up and said people should be able to do what they want but girls need to keep their single sex spaces. She’s a “popular” one so all the other girls agreed (girls school). The teacher got quite tearful and said “I’m so proud of you girls”. And that was that!

Thanks to mumsnet for educating me so I have inculcated the next generation!

Good work!

ArabellaScott · 17/03/2024 10:31

NancyDrawed · 17/03/2024 10:04

@NefertitiV

Thin end of the wedge, though IMHO

How is it in a child's best interests to go along with their belief that they are not the sex that in reality they are? I'm sure I read somewhere that calling a child by opposite sex pronouns can actually make their self loathing worse because they now see the wrong body parts for the sex that people (including trusted adults) around them agree that they are.

Which then puts them on the road to medicalisation

And also a teacher must consider the impact on other children.

ArabellaScott · 17/03/2024 10:30

Safeguarding:: Keepingchildrensafeineducation_2023

'all practitioners should make sure their approach is child centred. This means that they should consider, at all times, what is in the best interests of the child.'

'In all cases, if staff are unsure, they should always speak to the designated
safeguarding lead or a deputy.'

'Emotional abuse: 'may feature age or developmentally inappropriate
expectations being imposed on children. These may include interactions that are beyond a child’s developmental capability as well as overprotection and limitation of exploration and learning or preventing the child from participating in normal social interaction.'

'46. Only appropriately trained professionals should attempt to make a diagnosis of a mental health problem. Education staff, however, are well placed to observe children day-to-day and identify those whose behaviour suggests that they may be experiencing a mental health problem or be at risk of developing one. Schools and colleges can access a range of advice to help them identify children in need of extra mental health support, this includes working with external agencies.'

'47. If staff have a mental health concern about a child that is also a safeguarding concern, immediate action should be taken to follow their school or college's child protection policy, and by speaking to the designated safeguarding lead or a deputy.'

'74. All staff and volunteers should feel able to raise concerns about poor or unsafe practice and potential failures in the school or college’s safeguarding provision and know that such concerns will be taken seriously by the senior leadership team.'

'75. Appropriate whistleblowing procedures should be put in place for such concerns to be raised with the school or college’s senior leadership team.'

'76. Where a staff member feels unable to raise an issue with their employer, or feels that their genuine concerns are not being addressed, other whistleblowing channels are open to them'

Political impartiality:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/political-impartiality-in-schools/political-impartiality-in-schools

  • 'schools:must prohibit the promotion of partisan political views
  • should take steps to ensure the balanced presentation of opposing views on political issues when they are brought to the attention of pupils

Political impartiality in schools

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/political-impartiality-in-schools/political-impartiality-in-schools

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 17/03/2024 10:19

It is a minefield. I had to do a similar session with my KS3 (girls' school) tutor group recently. The content provided wasn't terribly forceful, and I definitely delivered it in a way that allowed for differing opinions. I avoided directly giving my own opinion, but did a fair bit of 'Some people think that...'. Some of the girls expressed confidently common-sense, pro-science views, but in a very non-confrontational way. Others disagreed a bit, but overall they were quite thoughtful and listened to the other side.

It would have been a very different conversation with some other classes in the school - we have only a couple of students who say they are trans, but quite a lot who would describe themselves as non-binary. SLT have not said too much about the gender issue, except to tell us not to address classes as 'girls' (even though the school is called xxx girls' school and they chose to attend a girls' school Hmm).

NobbyNobbs · 17/03/2024 10:06

WarriorN · 17/03/2024 09:38

Ultimately there's no law that says we should use particular pronouns for anyone.

It comes under a belief or opinion that you can be a different sex. If I were in this situation I'd probably say something along the lines of "some people believe ..."

I'd also point out that it's potentially discriminatory against children and adults with learning difficulties and also anyone with English as a foreign language.

Good post.

NobbyNobbs · 17/03/2024 10:05

Thanks or the supportive post @MrsOvertonsWindow that means a lot. Despite the huge pushback since JKR's vocal stance on this, I have been following this for 12 years and attended so many Speaker's Corners and Women's Place meetings. I've lost friends - even my own Godson who I helped raise publicly calls me a transphobe and has nothing to do with me. I've got very supportive colleagues who agree with me, but like OP, there's two forceful staff members who are activitists and fully trans supportive to the detriment of all our other pupils. The pronoun thing comes in cycles at out school and I've been equally as vocal in my objections but a recent change in SLT may see me in deep-water.

Sorry for the slight de-rail OP, but a school post like this always catches my attention. We are battling so many variables there - more than the normal workplace environment on this (and that's hard enough) because when you throw children/teenagers in the mix, it becomes so emotive.

NancyDrawed · 17/03/2024 10:04

@NefertitiV

Thin end of the wedge, though IMHO

How is it in a child's best interests to go along with their belief that they are not the sex that in reality they are? I'm sure I read somewhere that calling a child by opposite sex pronouns can actually make their self loathing worse because they now see the wrong body parts for the sex that people (including trusted adults) around them agree that they are.

Which then puts them on the road to medicalisation

BetterBee · 17/03/2024 10:01

@ValancyRedfern thank you for standing up, especially within a school environment.

@saraclara I started some of my sentences with some people believe…. Talked about how it's okay to have differing beliefs. I spoke about talking to me (or someone they're comfortable with) later if you have any questions.

I saw the news article with the teacher refusing to use preferred pronouns too. I know the whole story wouldnt have been told but it definitely concerns me.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 17/03/2024 09:41

ValancyRedfern · 17/03/2024 08:52

I think it varies massively school by school. My school has some activist teacher and me battling it out behind the scenes. The upshot of this is their attempt to make it compulsory for staff to use preferred pronouns hasn't been successful. They hate me but they can't get me fired as SLT have my back (not sure they have strong views either way, they are just petrified of 'both sides' and try to hold a middle line). I'm lucky in that I'm a long standing and senior member of staff who has a lot of the staffroom agreeing with me, and also I made a deal with myself that I would lose my job over this is if necessary (luckily DH could support me in the short term) so have the confidence to stand up. I know not everyone is in that position.

Thank you. That has taken immense courage.

WarriorN · 17/03/2024 09:39

But I appreciate the conditions in a school and delivering pre prepared slides is a very difficult area.

WarriorN · 17/03/2024 09:38

Ultimately there's no law that says we should use particular pronouns for anyone.

It comes under a belief or opinion that you can be a different sex. If I were in this situation I'd probably say something along the lines of "some people believe ..."

I'd also point out that it's potentially discriminatory against children and adults with learning difficulties and also anyone with English as a foreign language.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/03/2024 09:26

Hopefully @NobbyNobbs the gender questioning guidelines will be in place for the trip and they make it clear about no mixed sex sharing.
Sounds as if you've got the measure of them. This is a behavioural issue - all the intense "look at me" stuff that so often undermines the learning of others and makes teachers anxious - which is the last way you want to feel when you're managing a classroom of teenagers.

NobbyNobbs · 17/03/2024 08:52

I'm in a very similar position but in secondary school. We have more than 6 individuals who are already socially transitioned.

I am totally unwilling to use the pronouns of their choice - I am not lying. I avoid this by using them and they but even this doesn't sit right with me. Two of these individuals are an utter nightmare and have zero respect for the school system. One transgirl is hoping to get on a school trip abroad next year (taking payments next month) and that's going to be a nightmare as they're already planning their rooms with their girlfriends with their Mum 's support.

It's a real problem to me. I refuse to change reality for them so I can foresee trouble for me.

ValancyRedfern · 17/03/2024 08:52

I think it varies massively school by school. My school has some activist teacher and me battling it out behind the scenes. The upshot of this is their attempt to make it compulsory for staff to use preferred pronouns hasn't been successful. They hate me but they can't get me fired as SLT have my back (not sure they have strong views either way, they are just petrified of 'both sides' and try to hold a middle line). I'm lucky in that I'm a long standing and senior member of staff who has a lot of the staffroom agreeing with me, and also I made a deal with myself that I would lose my job over this is if necessary (luckily DH could support me in the short term) so have the confidence to stand up. I know not everyone is in that position.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/03/2024 08:46

WaterWeasel · 17/03/2024 08:27

What a superb read that is. Heartbreaking too but it all makes complete sense. It is child abuse and nothing less.

It is child abuse in so many ways - not just for the child involved but also in upending the understanding of every other child. Stating that someone they know to be a boy is now a girl and presenting it as a fact is just wrong. Nothing wrong in saying "Fred wants to wear a dress today and that's fine" but insisting that he's now a she is a form of emotional abuse to a young child.

KERALA1 · 17/03/2024 08:32

Had this recently. Dd put her hand up and said people should be able to do what they want but girls need to keep their single sex spaces. She’s a “popular” one so all the other girls agreed (girls school). The teacher got quite tearful and said “I’m so proud of you girls”. And that was that!

Thanks to mumsnet for educating me so I have inculcated the next generation!

WaterWeasel · 17/03/2024 08:27

What a superb read that is. Heartbreaking too but it all makes complete sense. It is child abuse and nothing less.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/03/2024 08:18

The government's new guidelines on gender questioning children will help a bit but they are being challenged. There's some evidence that the Equality Act & Gender Reassignment ACT were written to include children of any age, which if true, means that returning to safeguarding children from the toxic belief that their bodies are wrong and a sex change will fix them, will be more complicated.
This is the reality of what we're doing psychologically to young children when adults pretend they're the opposite sex:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

A childhood is not reversible - Transgender Trend

Childhood social transition is seen as 'kind.' A clinical psychologist explains what we set a child up for when we socially transition them.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/03/2024 08:10

SushiSuave · 17/03/2024 08:05

The teacher is this case was apparently sacked for raising concerns about socially transitioning an 8 year old girl. Obviously with all these casess, we never know the precise details until they're in court but if you look at the Rachel Meade case (social worker) it's evident that the pressure on professionals to follow Stonewall law and abandon safeguarding children is immense. Rachel won her case and the local authority and Social Work England came over terribly in court.

WaterWeasel · 17/03/2024 08:09

Its a fucking minefield OP. Tread carefully.

saraclara · 17/03/2024 07:50

I had to teach a 15 minute session to my form on using preferred pronouns and had guidance on the pre prepared powerpoint that basically was telling the kids it's okay to forget but basically you must use them. I didn't deliver it exactly as they planned

What do you mean by that last sentence?

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