Yes! Colleague is NOT CIS!

Wondering how I live my life as a women ?

I had that argument with a transman who insisted on calling me a cis woman. I said that to me, it seemed like he wasn't respecting my right to be called what I chose ie woman, and would he thus take offence if I called him a her instead? (I should note I first knew him as a her). It's a non argument now, he would call me a woman. Not cis. 😆

What point are you trying to make?

Does not trans mean altering the body to 'become' a man or woman, having been born with the attributes of the other sex. What has been accepted forever around the world is that some men dress and live their lives as women and some women dress and live their lives as men. Apart from anything else the surgical skills necessary have not been around for long enough for it to have been possible except in the very recent past.

Are you out to cancel women, @PaterPower ?
I have an issue with that...

Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history.

There's no indoctrination. Just because you don't approve doesn't make it any less real.

Why is there always this breakneck rush to assert the existence of trans people? The thread isnot questioning whether they exist. It's questioning whether we all need to define ourselves as not being them.

What ‘group’ do I belong to which seeks to “cancel women?!” Money’s a little tight at the moment, so if you could clear it up for me I’ll make sure I stop the direct debit 🙄

I’m aware that transwomen (and transmen for that matter - always coming in as an afterthought… I wonder why?) exist. It would have been hard to miss for anybody exposed to SM, or workplace EDI sessions, over the last ten years or so.

And, like you, I’ve met a few TW IRL. An ex work colleague, a few acquaintances and the odd one in the supermarket. Some were obviously ‘trying’ and some were more like the Spanish ‘Mum of four,’ making few discernible attempts to ‘transition’

Whatever the level of ‘effort’ they put in, transwomen are not women; the ‘cis’ prefix is both unnecessary and heavily loaded.

@baileybrosbuildingandloan

"Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history."

Which cultures specifically are you referring to, and can you explain how transmen and transwomen have been "accepted" throughout history. Thanks.

Yes, this. People are free to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't force me to participate in their beliefs, and call me a bigot if I won't.

At the centre of this debate is the assumption that one set of beliefs (trans) should be uniquely privileged over all others. That is not OK.

I agree.

Saying that using the term ‘cis’ is just being polite and kind is actually a perfidious way of controlling and compelling speech.

p.s. if we're going with "met my first transwoman".

I went to uni with a now non-binary transman.

I lived with a different transman for two years, who held frequent parties and invited their trans friends round who I spent many a merry evening with.

One of my neighbours is a transwoman who has a book written about her.

I walk my dog around the same area as a transwoman who walks their dogs too.

(Just in case these anecdotes give any more weight to my argument?!)

We all accept that there are some males and females that prefer living their life presenting as the opposite sex. Nobody is denying that, nobody wants to erase their existance.

But we won't go along with the charade and accept them into our sex-segragated spaces because those sex-segragated spaces were segragated for reasons. Sex-segragated spaces exist in all cultures around the world too, even in the ones that have allowed 'trans people' (as you put it, they might not see it that way, often it's a third distinct gender) to 'exist'.

The indoctrination comes with the thought terminating cliches such as TWAW, "Just be kind", "XYZ is transphobia!", "Misgendering is genocide" etc. etc.

If trans people just want to exist, and go about their daily lives, crack the fuck on.

But it's not about that, it's blind subservience, non-questioning, affirm-with-no question indoctrination. It's the medicalisation of kids and vulnerable adults, the invasion of women's hard won spaces and rights, eroding of boundaries through extended Queer Theory and crossover with (some) aspects of transness with fetishism.

What do you mean when you say 'trans'?

@PaterPower
(What a strange username for someone who belongs to the groups that are apparently out to 'cancel' women?)

I met my first trans woman in 1979

Go to other cultures in the World and trans men and women have been accepted throughout history.

There's no indoctrination. Just because you don't approve doesn't make it any less real.

Exactly this.

Oh no it's real, and in offices everywhere. [re pronouns]

Yes, it's everywhere. And the most depressing place I see it? Schools and youth charities.

You'll be something ambitious in the Green Party then @WitchyWitcherson ? 😙

I, for one, accept the term "non-man" in respect of our benevolent overlords.

Oh no it's real, and in offices everywhere.

Lots of people exist who are different from me in some way. But I don't feel the need to use any labels to define myself as "not them". I'd be here all day if I did that.

you forgot non-binary people, people who call themselves agender or non-gender (apparently slightly different idk) or those who completely reject gender as a bag of dicks

If you don't know the gender of the person you're calling cis, it is NOT OK to call them cis.
I'd estimate about 99% of times cis woman or cis man is used, it's a clear case of mis-gendering due to assuming the gender. While mis-gendering is not a crime, nor should it be, it's probably rude and you shouldn't do it.
As for people telling me about their gender identity or gender identities or lack of gender identity, I have roughly the same level of interest in that, as I do in hearing about their dreams. But I will try and remember it, just like if someone is into the Warhammers or Football or anything else. It's all part of me masking so that I can cope with normal social interactions.

I've always looked on the term "cis" as being the current put-down term for people who are seen as conventional. It's taken on that job from words like "square" and "straight". It connotes a lack of imagination, a rule bound orthodoxy and being really uncool and not edgy. TRAs may claim that it's "just" a descriptive term, yet it so often seems to be said with a sneer.

The argument against it is that the "cis/trans" distinction is one that does not need to be made. There are women and transwomen, men and transmen. That adequately describes the distinction.

Male women, of course! Like that male mother of four from Spain who is currently complaining that some of the other Spanish male women are only pretending to be women.

I think you’ll find that everyone out there in society accepts that the default meaning of “woman” is male, it’s only about five or six people on here who have a problem with this. And of course that means you need to explain that the boring old kind of female women are now “cis women” so that people don’t get them mixed up with the better* male women.

*source: Jordan Gray on national ATV while simultaneously playing a piano with her penis.

If it only existed on social media, I'd have far less of a problem with it.

Unfortunately it exists in the mainstream media, publishing, NHS, schools, universities, police, armed services, charities, corporations, companies, local government, national government. I've probably missed some, so ubiquitous has it become.