Yes! Colleague is NOT CIS!

Absolutely she could be. If a woman thinks she's a man, surely then she can then have various gender identities as a man. There's nothing stopping you having nested gender identities, why not?

But it doesn't mean that

A 'biological born woman' who thinks she is a man, a transman, wouldn't be cis

I’m a woman. Not ‘cis-woman’, not ‘non-transwoman’. Woman. It’s starting to get silly now.

Given that trans woman is a misnomer that describes a man who identifies as trans (whatever that is but I think it has something to do with stereotypes and other non identifiable feelings), I'd rather reclaim the word woman in it's entirety. I have nothing in common with trans identifying men whatsoever as I don't buy into stereotypes of womanhood.

Trans identifying male/ man works well and is a more accurate description.

They can fuck off with the use of the word woman, that's taken. As for cis, well no it's not necessary.

There have always been "trans" men and women because of how strictly society enforced the approved roles of the sexes, and the fact that homosexually was considered a sin. I find it really depressing that after a few decades of moving towards a society where people could just be themselves, we have moved so strongly back to male and female behaviour being rigidly enforced behind the fake "tolerance" of transgender ideology.

I thought "biological born woman" was horribly transphobic? Have the rules been changed again? So confusing 😪

Au contraire, they matter so much you'll never hear the end of it!

Well, it clearly has for you.

I'm not sure they're relevant. If you put yourself outside the binary then such distinctions surely don't apply anyway.

Indeed, they are only happy if everything is about them. Non trans, cis women both terms are nonsense and I'm pleased that more people are gradually realising this.

It's all The Emperors New Clothes.

The reference point around which the world revolves.

"Non transgender"

Christ

Why not just say "woman"? There are no subsets of woman.

Nope.

I reject 'non transgender'. I am a woman. A real one. I don't want or need a prefix because I AM.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. The comma threw me for a minute because it makes it read as if I was misrepresenting you.

I agree with the first part of your paragraph! There is no need for cis. But the second part is contradictory. That's what I was pointing out - the salient part.

As for "being shouted down by other women"... well, we must be reading different posts. It's a discussion board with different opinions. No one is shouting anyone down, it's just disagreement.

@Peskysquirrel perhaps you need to read it again. Your quote misrepresented what I was saying to another poster. You took out the whole beginning of the sentence. I was also saying to said poster that Woman is fine and no need for the CIS part.
Ok, you care. I don't, and I don't feel it's taken the word away from me. I'm allowed to express my personal opinion without being shouted down by other women because it's slightly different to yours.

How have I misrepresented you to another poster?

Well, you may not care, but I do care whether men call themselves women. The words we use to define ourselves are important. That's at the root of this whole issue.

Would you be happy for me to adopt your username when I post?

People who claim a special identity differentiates them from people in general; women who identify as men differentiates them from other women; males who identify as women differentiates them from other men.
We don't need a special way of differentiating males who identify as women from women, because they are already differentiated in exactly the same way as other men are differentiated from women. So in that case, you could #JustSayMen. Women and males who identify as women are not a sex category, nor are they a gender category - in fact there is no utility in grouping these two cohorts. The only point of it is to include males in women's spaces, sports, facilities or services. Doesn't work for me.

Anyway, glad to hear about your work colleague, OP.

I'm happy for you to @ me if you want to quote me. Especially if you're going to misrepresent what I was saying, to another poster.

I don't care what anyone wants to call themselves, including trans women who want to call them selves women. It doesn't mean they are women. A trans woman using the word woman doesn't take away the fact I am still a woman. They can call them selves woman/man/dog/cat/flying monkey for all I care.

Woman and Trans Woman, or Man and Trans Man does the job just nicely. Why complicate it?

And also non-transgender? Seriously? So 99.99% of people should define themselves through the prism of the other 00.01%?

Wow.

I still prefer the term ‘real woman’ - that one works for me.

And what’s all this hoopla about ‘transwomen’ ‘existing’?
Thanks for that. Yes. We know. All too well.

Nah, it's bollocks, and I've had enough.

I was polite and said women and "transwomen" in a generous act of consideration towards vulnerable people, but that wasn't enough. A space was demanded between trans and woman to lay claim to being a subset of actual women. No sooner than that had been conceded the next step was to steal the word woman for themselves - renaming the womb carriers as cis-women.

Every inch given so far has resulted in the colonisers annexing another mile. I now say women and "men who identify as women" and don't give a stuff that it shatters delusions and bruises fragile egos.

If this intolerant new religion insists on forcing a prefix onto the word woman, then I will choose to use "real" or "genuine".

Woman and female are sex based words, and sex is decided at conception, it cannot be changed.

Gender (or preferred sex stereotypes) is no more relevant to me than a firmly held belief in astrology or homeopathy. I don't care about your gender or your pronouns, in exactly the same way I don't care about what star sign you were "born under" and what "house" the moon was in when you took your first breath. I'm not interested in persecuting you, or policing your language. I just want to give you a wide berth and require that you extend the exact same courtesies to me.

Let's remove the term man and refer to all males as non-women?

I am not a non-muslim / non-runner / non-violinist / non-youth / non-anything else

I am defined by who I am - not by everything I don't belong to for several reasons:

• it is too clumsy
• it is un-necessary
• it places too much emphasis on what I am not, rather than what I am - it only allows me to be defined by groups of which I am not a member - and that is one huge big issue...

take that last reason - I am proudly a non-murderer - but I wouldn't wish to be defined only by my relationship to or not a group of murderers...

so why would any group have the arrogance to consider that they are so central to existence and human life that those not in the group can only be defined by being not-group members?!

But... we seem to get on fine on this forum without getting completely tied in knots of confusion without the need for "cis".

Trans woman
Woman

Job done.