Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

"Spanish Stonewall" suing "Non Normative Trans People"

291 replies

WitchyWitcherson · 13/03/2024 08:57

Saw this post on X from Glinner: https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1767691199794545138

"The Spanish equivalent to Stonewall (FELGTB) has been fuming some days because of those military guys who changed their legal sex to female without doing anything else (and keeping beards, wives, everything!), because they were proving us feminists so right.

So finally FELGTB have decided to sue the military guys (who created an organisation called "Non Normative Trans People" (TNN in its Spanish acronym) for "fraud". But TNN have doubled down and said that they are going to sue FELGTB for transphobia, because no reason has to be given for changing your ID and the law says you can't be questioned."

How transphobic of FELGTB, who are they to gatekeep transness?!

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1767691199794545138

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
Brefugee · 13/03/2024 14:24

it is really absolutely, completely and utterly brilliant. He has them over a massive barrel. I really can't wait to see how this plays out.

ScrollingLeaves · 13/03/2024 14:22

FannyCann · 13/03/2024 13:30

What amateurs.
He has his own private bathroom because
"I did not consider it appropriate to be with biological women out of respect to them".

He might as well have shouted out "I'm a man"! Wink

Yes, but he is asking for, fairly enough, what we keep wanting transwomen to be content with: their own ’third’ space.

Brefugee · 13/03/2024 13:44

FannyCann · 13/03/2024 13:30

What amateurs.
He has his own private bathroom because
"I did not consider it appropriate to be with biological women out of respect to them".

He might as well have shouted out "I'm a man"! Wink

that is one of the things that makes me think this is purely about men not wanting women to have anything they can't, rather than a trans thing. He is absolutely brilliant though. Because he is getting more than the women - his own room, ffs - and literally nobody in Spain can take him to task for it. Nobody.

FannyCann · 13/03/2024 13:30

What amateurs.
He has his own private bathroom because
"I did not consider it appropriate to be with biological women out of respect to them".

He might as well have shouted out "I'm a man"! Wink

"Spanish Stonewall" suing "Non Normative Trans People"
"Spanish Stonewall" suing "Non Normative Trans People"
Brefugee · 13/03/2024 13:13

What its all about - the resistance - is that heterosexual motivation still precludes a diagnosis of GD and means without coaching on the right lies to tell, most seeking to ‘transition’ wouldn’t get certified. That is why the ‘umbrella’ was widened.

it just all takes into the realms of (transphobic) "trutrans" though. People with genuine GD probably rail against all the waiting etc, but must recognise that in the end it all serves a purpose. People who don't fit that description just want it all done now because, frankly, we all have the attention span of a goldfish these days and have to have everything now.

(is this a good time to post the Sesame Street Cookie Monster clip about delayed gratification?)

So. Because of this, and because i think gender is ridiculous and leads to stereotypes and ultimately restricts women (and men but they can fight their own battles) i really really want to see how this all plays out in the Spanish courts. I really really wish I'd chosen Spanish now instead of the other language at school.

PatatiPatatras · 13/03/2024 13:06

What is a woman? There is no such thing as 'a' woman. 'Woman' is something men wear for profit or pleasure!

Did I get that right?

Now be kindly quiet, and let the men get on with their righteous battle.

BackCats · 13/03/2024 12:59

Brefugee · 13/03/2024 11:15

Well this is where it will all hinge, isn't. If you have SelfID with zero processes or indicators, you must simply and uncritically without question accept the GI of the person you are talking to/investigatin. SelfID collapses into itself if this isn't done.

And while I literally don't care what people wear and so on, i really do care that false statistics and reporting means that either investment can't be targeted where it's needed (eg. Homeless shelters for men, rape crisis centres for women, transgender services for whoever needs it etc) and that is the problem with SelfID in a nutshell: it skews statistics (as the twitter thread showing how one man saying he is a woman skews murder statistics by 20% if you look at women who murder)

If you want to be in the marines, the paras, the SAS, a surgeon, whatever you have to jump through rigorous hoops. I really don't see - for "true trans" people why there is a resistance to the 2 years "living in the acquired gender" and a clinical diagnosis of GD - because if you truly are trans, you will then get the help and resources needed. If we have no way of telling who is doing it for shits & giggles, for Malaga Airport (or can we utter the hallowed 3 initials now?) purposes, for other nefarious pruposes etc... how can we target the help?

If actual trans people had stood with the likes of Buck Angel (much as i find him a bit much) and pointed out that this wasn't going to help trans people but it would play right into the hands of the followers of Michel fucking Foucoult and those of his ilk, we wouldn't be in this mess.

So - i hope that these "trans soldiers" really are just men with an eye on what they can get for themselves. Because it might wake those fuckers up who haven't been listening to women shouting about this for years. And i hope this means that Spain will row back on SelfID and keep giving the disadvantaged-because-of-their-sex female Spanish soldiers their due.

I really don't see - for "true trans" people why there is a resistance to the 2 years "living in the acquired gender" and a clinical diagnosis of GD - because if you truly are trans, you will then get the help and resources needed.

In the film The Silence of The Lambs (inspired in part by Ed Gein), Lecter suggests to Agent Starling that she could find the perpetrator by researching who has repeatedly applied and failed to get sexual reassignment surgery. That was back when it was only homosexual ‘transsexuals’ who could get past the gatekeepers. I think it was John Michael Bailey who offered the ‘transsexual community’ the ‘service’ of writing letters of recommendation (even though he wasn’t medically qualified to) which were taken to surgeons to enable sexually motivated heterosexual men to get srs. In the opinion of Bailey and Blanchard, all transsexualism is sexually motivated, so why gatekeep ‘transition’ to homosexual men?

There was quite a big hoo-ha because those Bailey had ‘helped’ basically took exception to the fact that he didn’t believe they were actually real women on the inside , he believed they were all sexually motivated with a mental health issue, but wasn’t judgemental about it.

What its all about - the resistance - is that heterosexual motivation still precludes a diagnosis of GD and means without coaching on the right lies to tell, most seeking to ‘transition’ wouldn’t get certified. That is why the ‘umbrella’ was widened.

Cauliflowery · 13/03/2024 12:42

I think the situation illustrates the position women find themselves in right now quite well.

Misogynists to the left (wing) and misogynists to the right (wing).

Both groups think they're entitled to whatever special things they perceive women to have. Neither group has any fucking clue what it's actually like to be a woman because neither think enough of women to bother to find out. Both groups think they own women, but each group thinks their form of ownership is so much better than the other that women should be grateful to them and let them do what they please.

Like others here, I will delight in the right wing style misogynists taking out the left wing style misogynists. But I will not support them in removing the chance for actual women to have something approaching equality.

But perhaps the best thing would be if this situation demonstrated to young women that true freedom and true equity in society can only happen away from the hands of both of these groups of men.

TheABC · 13/03/2024 12:37

Fluffy the cuddly toy...?

I missed that post.

orangegato · 13/03/2024 12:36

I don’t know which post brings me more joy. This or the one about Fluffy the cuddly toy.

Original poster
WitchyWitcherson · 13/03/2024 11:52

ATerrorofLeftovers · 13/03/2024 11:50

Thank god for them and their special powers 💪

Show quote history

I wonder if Alex, mother of four is "at it", or if Alex has a female soul trapped so deep down there is not even a hint of performative femininity.

OP posts:
ATerrorofLeftovers · 13/03/2024 11:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/03/2024 11:44

It should be easier in Scotland though, where Humza Yusaf knows who is "at it" as well as in England where Layla Moran can see into people's souls.

Thank god for them and their special powers 💪

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:46

And it's only Wednesday!

domineastronomy · 13/03/2024 11:45

Absolutely brilliant! What a week!

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:45

I thought Eddie/Suzie, for example, could flip between boy and girl modes, and is in the ladies' adjusting his tackle when in girl mode. Is Suzie real? What type of "transwoman" is she? Does she exist?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/03/2024 11:44

It should be easier in Scotland though, where Humza Yusaf knows who is "at it" as well as in England where Layla Moran can see into people's souls.

Original poster
WitchyWitcherson · 13/03/2024 11:44

OnlyLoveCanBreakYourHeart · 13/03/2024 11:36

End the patriarchy by making men women? WTF have I just read?

I think Juanjo is trolling.

Juanjo might be trolling the both sides of the debate, but Juanjo is most definitely trolling TRAs. But of course Juanjo remains v. sincere in Juanjo's convictions.

As pp's have pointed out, this trolling is likely to have positive outcomes in terms of highlighting the stupidity of self-ID laws, but negative ones for women if the outcome is to remove hard-won sex-based benefits.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 13/03/2024 11:43

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:34

Are there going to be two types of "transwomen" now? Do we need a new word?

I love this:

Army corporal Roberto Perdigones:

“On the outside I feel like a heterosexual man, but on the inside I am a lesbian. And it is the latter that counts,'”

You can't fault them. It is utterly brilliant.

Original poster
WitchyWitcherson · 13/03/2024 11:39

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:34

Are there going to be two types of "transwomen" now? Do we need a new word?

I love this:

Army corporal Roberto Perdigones:

“On the outside I feel like a heterosexual man, but on the inside I am a lesbian. And it is the latter that counts,'”

Well this is the thing. If you define a real trans woman as someone who is fully medically transitioned, then you are excluding those trans women who cannot realise full medical transition due to financial, medical or other reasons.

And isn't "being trans" also a fluid thing? And aren't people allowed to express their transness any way they wish? And isn't it incredibly transphobic to question someone's gender? And asking people to "pass" as the opposite sex as a prerequisite is transphobic too, as some people pass better than others, and it's not the fault of the trans person?

Maybe we just stick to defining people by their sex instead, much easier.

OP posts:
OnlyLoveCanBreakYourHeart · 13/03/2024 11:36

End the patriarchy by making men women? WTF have I just read?

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:34

Are there going to be two types of "transwomen" now? Do we need a new word?

I love this:

Army corporal Roberto Perdigones:

“On the outside I feel like a heterosexual man, but on the inside I am a lesbian. And it is the latter that counts,'”

ATerrorofLeftovers · 13/03/2024 11:23

ArabellaScott · 13/03/2024 09:08

Gosh, imagine someone appropriating your identity and pretending to be you and helping themselves to your stuff.

Absolutely! Terrible, isn’t it? Grin

stickygotstuck · 13/03/2024 11:17

Brefugee · 13/03/2024 10:50

I think you're right that the soldiers have just worked on self interest. Pointing out the genderwoo is just a fun sideline for them. And whichever way this goes, women will lose - either lose the women-only incentives the soldiers are taking advantage of, or lose the right to have a word for our own sex class.

agree, it is just a laugh to them but in the end, in the name of equality, female Spanish soldiers (and ex-soldiers) are going to lose out on what i thought was a very good way of bringing them up to where they would have been (financially) if they'd been a man. (wish the british army would do that - we were literally paid less for doing the same job in so many respects. Which reminds me i completely forgot to apply for my pension!)

One of the biggest things that disturbs me about genderwoo (as a 2nd waver) is the adpotion of seriously ridiculously out-dated and unwanted gender stereotypes. Because the likes of Dylan M and IW and so on are wearing dresses (woo) and growing their hair (yee har) but they are not taking on the drudgery of caring roles and so on. They are not walking our fucking walk. It enrages me that someone can work in a bank for 35 years taking all the promotions etc (see also the current thread about how we don't talk about how having DC affects your career) and then decide - POUF! - they are now a woman and LOOK! most senior woman in banking, girls, you just need to work harder i am living proof there is no glass ceiling. yadda yadda. And that is before we get to sex segregated spaces and sport and so on.

and so, in the spirit of The Enemy Of Your Enemy Is Your Friend i will cheer on the Spanish chaps. Right up until the female Spanish soldiers start to be discriminated against again.

I'm afraid I agree with both of you.

However, in this case - and for now - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As an aside, can I just point out that Alex's pink shirt is not really 'her' making an effort. It is not unusual for Spanish men to wear pink shirts, it's actually a rather popular shade 👚.

Swipe left for the next trending thread