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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Spanish Stonewall" suing "Non Normative Trans People"

291 replies

WitchyWitcherson · 13/03/2024 08:57

Saw this post on X from Glinner: https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1767691199794545138

"The Spanish equivalent to Stonewall (FELGTB) has been fuming some days because of those military guys who changed their legal sex to female without doing anything else (and keeping beards, wives, everything!), because they were proving us feminists so right.

So finally FELGTB have decided to sue the military guys (who created an organisation called "Non Normative Trans People" (TNN in its Spanish acronym) for "fraud". But TNN have doubled down and said that they are going to sue FELGTB for transphobia, because no reason has to be given for changing your ID and the law says you can't be questioned."

How transphobic of FELGTB, who are they to gatekeep transness?!

https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1767691199794545138

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
TheABC · 14/03/2024 20:27

I'm in for any form of masculine military fieldwork, keeping the subject still whilst, er, the research takes place. Trust me, I have hypnotised a horrified Regiment before purely with my breast movement.

TWETMIRF · 14/03/2024 19:36

My mare identified as starving so would wolf hers down before pushing the gelding she shared a field with out the way to eat his. She had to be tied up to eat as otherwise he didn't get any as he'd meekly move away and stand looking pitiful while she licked his trug clean.

TWETMIRF · 14/03/2024 19:34

That's easy, put some food in a pink trug and some in a blue one and see which they eat from. Pink is female, blue is male and both is non binary.

borntobequiet · 14/03/2024 19:32

“To those who choose to follow in our footsteps”: making women/LGBT+ soldiers (in)visible through feminist “her-story” theater

I thought “what an excellent parody”. Silly me.

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/03/2024 19:32

TWETMIRF · 14/03/2024 19:30

Bagsy the ponies, I am getting in on this et al lark too. My relevant experience is having previously had a very randy mare who seemed to be permanently in season and couldn't walk past a field with a fella in without winking (I don't mean with her eyes...)

How do you know how the pony identifies though? Surely somehow we'd need to establish this?

TWETMIRF · 14/03/2024 19:30

Bagsy the ponies, I am getting in on this et al lark too. My relevant experience is having previously had a very randy mare who seemed to be permanently in season and couldn't walk past a field with a fella in without winking (I don't mean with her eyes...)

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/03/2024 19:28

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:37

“To those who choose to follow in our footsteps”: making women/LGBT+ soldiers (in)visible through feminist “her-story” theater

Building on Judith Butler’s understanding of visibility as “the object of continuous regulation and contestation,” art/aesthetics studies in international relations, and feminist theater studies, we identify feminist “her-story” theater as a unique site where Western “gender-/sexuality-inclusive” soldiering is visibilized, contested, and subverted. Drawing on ethnographic observations of two award-winning dramas, interviews with artists and military hosts, and findings from a wider research project on contemporary British military culture, we reveal the key role of heteronormative and patriarchal cultural discourses in reproducing the ambivalent positionalities of women/LGBT+ soldiers. We argue that the very visibility of women/LGBT+ soldiers on the stage paradoxically operates to make the complexities of – and struggles against – masculinized heteronormative military cultures invisible. Furthermore, despite artists’ attempts to dissociate empowerment through soldiering from the problematic context of modern conflicts, “her-story” theater ultimately entrenches gendered/racialized hierarchies that normalize Western military interventions. We conclude that only through sustained feminist reflection on the contours of “imagined” futures of female/LGBT+ soldiering can this persistently problematic (in)visibility be productively disrupted.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14616742.2022.2097936

Please tell me this was not funded by UK taxpayers.

I always thought the 'medicine and useful subjects like engeering only' argument about Universities was wrong but reading something like this, and seeing the 'academics' (heavy air quotes) who bullied Jo Phoenix at the ET, I'm inclined to reconsider.

SoupDragonsFriend · 14/03/2024 19:08

@ Emotionalsupportviper Thank you for the tattoos suggestion. Given the academic nature of this proposed research, I decided to check the O.E.D. for definitions of tattoos. I’d like to be completely clear. Are we talking about tattoo as in:

  1. Military. A signal made, by beat of drum or bugle call, in the evening, for soldiers to repair to their quarters in garrison or tents in camp.
  2. The formation of permanent marks or designs upon the skin by puncturing it and inserting a pigment
  3. Beating as upon a drum; to thump, tap, or rap upon something with a succession of blows.
  4. A native-bred Indian pony. Also attributive as tattoo horse, tattoo mare'*
  5. An armadillo? *

I should make it clear that I am not qualified to inspect any of these so I’m probably eminently suitable. Actually, I’m willing to do anything for an ‘et al’ so thank you for asking. However, if I have a choice, please can I inspect Armadillos? I’m not very keen on the idea of having to stare at permanent pigmented marks on semi-naked men/hims/thems/etc. Not really my kind of thing IYSWIM. Maybe @JanesLittleGirl would be more suitable? She sounded very keen. 😁

*[I admit, I've never heard of 4) and 5) before. MN does provide a very broad education.]
Edited to get rid of the italics -failed.

Brefugee · 14/03/2024 19:02

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:38

Yes, but did you have goats? Or tassels?

one of my friends went into a regiment with a goat as mascot. And no tassels as such, but some of my lot came originally from guards regiments, at least one had a hackle😂

Boiledbeetle · 14/03/2024 18:54

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 14:26

Here's a Greek one just for comparison.

In case anyone doesn't think this is feminism related, I'm examining the heterogenity of gender roles within different national contexts working cross-laterally against assumed gender/sexuality matrixes. I might write an essay on it.

Well that's half an hour of my life I'm never getting back.

SoupDragonsFriend · 14/03/2024 18:53

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:37

“To those who choose to follow in our footsteps”: making women/LGBT+ soldiers (in)visible through feminist “her-story” theater

Building on Judith Butler’s understanding of visibility as “the object of continuous regulation and contestation,” art/aesthetics studies in international relations, and feminist theater studies, we identify feminist “her-story” theater as a unique site where Western “gender-/sexuality-inclusive” soldiering is visibilized, contested, and subverted. Drawing on ethnographic observations of two award-winning dramas, interviews with artists and military hosts, and findings from a wider research project on contemporary British military culture, we reveal the key role of heteronormative and patriarchal cultural discourses in reproducing the ambivalent positionalities of women/LGBT+ soldiers. We argue that the very visibility of women/LGBT+ soldiers on the stage paradoxically operates to make the complexities of – and struggles against – masculinized heteronormative military cultures invisible. Furthermore, despite artists’ attempts to dissociate empowerment through soldiering from the problematic context of modern conflicts, “her-story” theater ultimately entrenches gendered/racialized hierarchies that normalize Western military interventions. We conclude that only through sustained feminist reflection on the contours of “imagined” futures of female/LGBT+ soldiering can this persistently problematic (in)visibility be productively disrupted.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14616742.2022.2097936

Oh gawd it's real. I skim read that abstract feeling so impressed that you could churn out this stuff so quickly, only to see the tandfonline link at the end, 😂

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:38

Brefugee · 14/03/2024 18:34

God i miss those days. Morning parade, knock off their hat and shout "get away" and watch them scuttle off to the guardroom for a day of being messed around by a guy with a loud voice and a pace stick.

To get back on topic - back in my day (pre don't ask, don't tell - very much if you were caught being gay, which happened IME more to women than men, you were charged with breaking Queen's Regs, possibly a bit of jail time, then out on your ear) you were more likely to encounter a lesbian than a gay or trans woman soldier (never met a trans woman soldier, I'm sure we'd have given them short shrift, tbh. We weren't "kind' it was dog-eat-dog back then)

Yes, but did you have goats? Or tassels?

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:37

Someone beat us to it. Alas.

Probably the title needs more brackets and slashes. They love that.

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:37

“To those who choose to follow in our footsteps”: making women/LGBT+ soldiers (in)visible through feminist “her-story” theater

Building on Judith Butler’s understanding of visibility as “the object of continuous regulation and contestation,” art/aesthetics studies in international relations, and feminist theater studies, we identify feminist “her-story” theater as a unique site where Western “gender-/sexuality-inclusive” soldiering is visibilized, contested, and subverted. Drawing on ethnographic observations of two award-winning dramas, interviews with artists and military hosts, and findings from a wider research project on contemporary British military culture, we reveal the key role of heteronormative and patriarchal cultural discourses in reproducing the ambivalent positionalities of women/LGBT+ soldiers. We argue that the very visibility of women/LGBT+ soldiers on the stage paradoxically operates to make the complexities of – and struggles against – masculinized heteronormative military cultures invisible. Furthermore, despite artists’ attempts to dissociate empowerment through soldiering from the problematic context of modern conflicts, “her-story” theater ultimately entrenches gendered/racialized hierarchies that normalize Western military interventions. We conclude that only through sustained feminist reflection on the contours of “imagined” futures of female/LGBT+ soldiering can this persistently problematic (in)visibility be productively disrupted.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14616742.2022.2097936

Brefugee · 14/03/2024 18:34

Snowypeaks · 14/03/2024 18:26

Ah, Redacted - one of our finest military training schools. And let's not forget Redacted corps - a disciplined, courageous group of men and women. We will never see their like again.
If you get tired of doing the shouting in the recruits' faces with spittle flecks thing, or making them drop and give you ten, I'm very happy to pick up the slack.
Just so you know.

God i miss those days. Morning parade, knock off their hat and shout "get away" and watch them scuttle off to the guardroom for a day of being messed around by a guy with a loud voice and a pace stick.

To get back on topic - back in my day (pre don't ask, don't tell - very much if you were caught being gay, which happened IME more to women than men, you were charged with breaking Queen's Regs, possibly a bit of jail time, then out on your ear) you were more likely to encounter a lesbian than a gay or trans woman soldier (never met a trans woman soldier, I'm sure we'd have given them short shrift, tbh. We weren't "kind' it was dog-eat-dog back then)

ArabellaScott · 14/03/2024 18:30

You Shall Go To the Military Balls - Queering the Masculinity of the Military, a study of the dress, marches, and lip-synch videos of world battalions, illustrated, by Mumsnet Vipers et al.

JanesLittleGirl · 14/03/2024 18:30

Can I volunteer to check the consistency of the oil on those biceps?

IcakethereforeIam · 14/03/2024 18:28

IcakethereforeIam · 14/03/2024 18:04

That's easy. Making pompom look butch

https://youtube.com/shorts/VQeXdesNfPA?si=XwUlWZPQI1PxbQV

https://youtube.com/shorts/-WwIj0lBiRw?si=39Ume0HDP4S8xVjs

Elite level grandmother's footsteps

Edited

I like to think in the first one the marching gradually got faster and faster.

CanNoLongerKeepUp · 14/03/2024 18:28

Emotionalsupportviper · 14/03/2024 17:40

I'm sure there must be a World Journal of Any Sort of Shite That People Desperate To Get Published Will Churn Out To Get A Grant somewhere.

It will doubtless be very low impact and full of circular arguments and unreliable statistical evidence, but you could say the same for any journal that thinks people change sex . . .

I bet someone's already done a Masters on "Who has the most bizarre military marching style and why," with a follow up PhD in "Who has the most bizarre military uniform and why." I would like to meet this person.

Give us a fortnight @ScrotumGantry - we're just putting together the details for the ethics committee and preparing the grant application. Then we'll knock out the paper and submit it for publication and probably get an award.

You can meet us formally at the Nobel prize-giving ceremony.

Edited to add @SoupDragonsFriend to the team. Would you like to be in charge of inspecting the tattoos Soup?

Edited

deleted

Snowypeaks · 14/03/2024 18:26

Brefugee · 14/03/2024 18:17

I volunteer in some capacity - in my day i used to be in charge of recruits at [redacted] for the [redacted] corps.

Ah, Redacted - one of our finest military training schools. And let's not forget Redacted corps - a disciplined, courageous group of men and women. We will never see their like again.
If you get tired of doing the shouting in the recruits' faces with spittle flecks thing, or making them drop and give you ten, I'm very happy to pick up the slack.
Just so you know.

Brefugee · 14/03/2024 18:17

I volunteer in some capacity - in my day i used to be in charge of recruits at [redacted] for the [redacted] corps.

IcakethereforeIam · 14/03/2024 18:04

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/03/2024 17:53

Maybe one of the chapters could be on 'military uniform with the most feminine essence'?

That's easy. Making pompom look butch

https://youtube.com/shorts/VQeXdesNfPA?si=XwUlWZPQI1PxbQV

https://youtube.com/shorts/-WwIj0lBiRw?si=39Ume0HDP4S8xVjs

Elite level grandmother's footsteps

Before you continue to YouTube

https://youtube.com/shorts/VQeXdesNfPA?si=XwUlWZ_PQI1PxbQV

Emotionalsupportviper · 14/03/2024 17:57

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/03/2024 17:53

Maybe one of the chapters could be on 'military uniform with the most feminine essence'?

And "Blowing kisses at the enemy: against the Geneva Convention or legitimate hostility?"

Postsynapticdensity · 14/03/2024 17:56

theDudesmummy · 13/03/2024 11:34

Are there going to be two types of "transwomen" now? Do we need a new word?

I love this:

Army corporal Roberto Perdigones:

“On the outside I feel like a heterosexual man, but on the inside I am a lesbian. And it is the latter that counts,'”

Is that his real name? Normative determinism of the day..(Robert Bullets/Pellets)

pronounsbundlebundle · 14/03/2024 17:53

Maybe one of the chapters could be on 'military uniform with the most feminine essence'?