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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans pupils and dorms in France

42 replies

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:20

I live (and teach) in France and so far haven't really been confronted with any situation which has actually bothered me. DD is 14 and will be boarding as of next year, we've been visiting schools and one of the dorms was decorated (by the pupils) with trans flags (which is fine obviously). I thought I'd ask what their trans policy was. Turns out kids are allowed to to be housed in the dorms that align with their gender identity and the parents of the other kids don't even need to be informed. I'm not thrilled to say the least. I have no idea where to go from here. DD has to board, I don't want her to be ostracised or perceived as having transphobic parents but I do NOT want her sharing a room with a male for the next three years.
Not sure what the point of this thread is, maybe I just need to air my concerns here as I probably shouldn't IRL.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 03/03/2024 21:09

I don't want to worry you, OP, this is a tough situation.

Helping your daughter draw strong boundaries is great advice; but my concern would be as much for consensual activity as anything else.

How on earth does anyone think having mixed sex dorms for teenagers is going to work?!

Are other parents aware of this situation?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/03/2024 21:09

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:56

I'm just going to have to work on her and her personal boundaries. I'm sure the trans kids in question are lovely, and they may not end up in the same room.

Most of these children are highly vulnerable. The problems arise with the emotional manipulation that's encouraged by others in getting their perceived demands met. That's where it's a problem in what should be single sex spaces - especially sleeping and washing with sometimes limited and unaware supervision.
If there's no alternative then enabling her to have firm boundaries and to seek support from you instantly if she has any sense of her boundaries being challenged is critical. Especially if she's a new student which can make her more vulnerable with (hopefully for a while) a more limited peer support group.
Is there any possibility of a similar course you'd deem acceptable somewhere where she doesn't have to board in a school boasting of eroding boundaries for girls?

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:56

I'm just going to have to work on her and her personal boundaries. I'm sure the trans kids in question are lovely, and they may not end up in the same room.

OP posts:
LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:53

Phillippeflop · 03/03/2024 20:51

Could you drive her there and back if it’s an hour away if she was ever put in a situation where she was boarding with a boy?

Technically she could get public transport but it's 2.5hrs each way and she's going to have a lot of homework. DH and I both start work at 8am so can't drive her in. Fuck.

OP posts:
Phillippeflop · 03/03/2024 20:51

Could you drive her there and back if it’s an hour away if she was ever put in a situation where she was boarding with a boy?

StrongerThanYouTh1nk · 03/03/2024 20:47

Count yourself lucky that you’ve been given an early warning. Read ‘Lost in Trans Nation’ book by Miriam Grossman, ‘Trans’ by Helen Joyce or ‘Time to Think’ by Hannah Barnes, so that you’re well informed. There is also a movie ‘War on Children’ by Robby Starbuck.

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:46

Chersfrozenface · 03/03/2024 20:38

Yeah, I’d not be giving them my money tbh.

I suspect that this is a state secondary school where children have to board during the week because travelling distances are too great to get to and from school every day, but the OP can confirm whether this is true or not.

Yeah that's it, it's about 1400€/year for full board so possibly actually cheaper than having her at home!

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 03/03/2024 20:44

Cross post with OP

Chersfrozenface · 03/03/2024 20:38

Yeah, I’d not be giving them my money tbh.

I suspect that this is a state secondary school where children have to board during the week because travelling distances are too great to get to and from school every day, but the OP can confirm whether this is true or not.

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:38

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/03/2024 20:36

While few countries have great records of safeguarding children, France seems to have a greater problem than most with the sexual assault of girls. There's been a series of recent reports, scandals exposing paedophilia, incest and the routine abuse of girls. This was in the Times the other day about the film industry:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d84680fd-e3d2-489c-aaa9-1e4db7a6f68d?shareToken=c3ef9d31deea54f37b9fddae9f100dd4

& this from several years back in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/25/memoirs-writers-highlight-sexual-abuse-in-france-metoo

Does she have to board in France? Are these independent schools OP?

These are bog standard state schools, she has to board during the week as the closest school that does the course she wants is an hour away. God it's depressing.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/03/2024 20:36

While few countries have great records of safeguarding children, France seems to have a greater problem than most with the sexual assault of girls. There's been a series of recent reports, scandals exposing paedophilia, incest and the routine abuse of girls. This was in the Times the other day about the film industry:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d84680fd-e3d2-489c-aaa9-1e4db7a6f68d?shareToken=c3ef9d31deea54f37b9fddae9f100dd4

& this from several years back in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/25/memoirs-writers-highlight-sexual-abuse-in-france-metoo

Does she have to board in France? Are these independent schools OP?

The speech that could finally break French resistance to MeToo

Judith Godrèche denounced the “illicit trafficking of young women” at the César Awards

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d84680fd-e3d2-489c-aaa9-1e4db7a6f68d?shareToken=c3ef9d31deea54f37b9fddae9f100dd4

MountSylvia · 03/03/2024 20:33

I'd rule that one out and look at the other schools. It might not be illegal to house boys and girls together but you might find a school where it's not so actively encouraged.

Chersfrozenface · 03/03/2024 20:31

OP if your daughter has to board and that's the policy and you don't want to protest or be seen as "anti trans', pretty much the only thing you can do is make sure your daughter has very strong boundaries about people seeing her body and various kinds of sexual contact, whatever the gender identity of those around her

Not easy, I would imagine, what with peer pressure and general French culture (I used to live in France).

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:31

DS who boarded last year has just told me there was a gay trans boy in his dorm. He didn't say anything to us at the time but he's just said it was really awkward.

OP posts:
Acolddayinhull · 03/03/2024 20:30

Well they’ll be going through puberty now so it’ll be blindingly obvious who’s a real girl and who isn’t. So if DD suspects a dormmate is a boy masquerading as female she needs to ask to move. If you aren’t brave enough to say why then make up another reason. I’d have no qualms about telling them why though. Presumably there’s every chance she’ll be playing sports and expected to change infront of boys too if they want to play dress up. Yeah, I’d not be giving them my money tbh.

LaChatte · 03/03/2024 20:28

PSEnny · 03/03/2024 20:25

I would not be happy about this. The school has a statutory and legal responsibility to keep your child safe. Sharing a dorm with a male with a penis risks her safety.
You could enquire about their safeguarding policy and if it is missing a section on female pupils sharing intimate spaces with biological males I wound query this. You could also ask to see their risk assessment. If they don’t have these things you have every right to expect them to get them in place pronto.

Yeah we don't have all that stuff here! I checked on the official (national government) website and that's the actually stance they have, pupils to be housed where they want basically. The showers are individual boxes in a big bathroom.

OP posts:
PSEnny · 03/03/2024 20:25

I would not be happy about this. The school has a statutory and legal responsibility to keep your child safe. Sharing a dorm with a male with a penis risks her safety.
You could enquire about their safeguarding policy and if it is missing a section on female pupils sharing intimate spaces with biological males I wound query this. You could also ask to see their risk assessment. If they don’t have these things you have every right to expect them to get them in place pronto.