Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

are they in some cases getting flashbacks to not getting their pears cutted up correctly by their mothers when they were 3?

Women saying 'No', particularly older women saying it, infuriates a lot of men and (sadly) some women. They don’t like it when the service humans have opinions and won’t do what they’re told. The non-compliance generates excessive anger 😏

I’m reading Victoria Smith’s 'Hags: The Demonisation of Middle-Aged Women' at the moment and she describes this phenomenon incredibly well.

Such an important conversation. Time after time we see men salivating at the thought of "taking down" an articulate woman like Helen Joyce, especially in relation to safeguarding children.
Time after time transactivists insist that women on here are right wing "fascists, bigots, pearl clutchers", all out of touch for believing that trans ideology is age inappropriate for children and causing actual harm. Despite their evident contempt for women, certain posters spend an inordinate amount of time dismissing, belittling and denying facts, science and research to the extent that some even laughably deny social contagion in teenagers exists.

There's a reason they're here.
We see them.
We know what they're doing
We're saying no.

Dadjoke seems to have gone quiet since I asked him to explain what he thinks transgenderism is.

I've asked him before, and he's never been able to answer.

He also can't explain what a gender identity is, what it means to 'have a gender' or how either of these things are linked to sex, or why it is important for trans identifying people to change their bodies to 'align with their gender identity'.

Interesting that he has no answers to the most basic questions about this ideology he supports. Although none of the other people who support this ideology can answer these questions either.

To the women here who wrote/write m/m fanfiction; why m/m instead of m/f? (I assume you're straight).
To me it seems as if girls are disappearing themselves and it's just so sad to see. Maybe I'm wrong so I'm asking to understand....

I've tended to assume DadJoke was an evangelical transman.

However.
My twopennorth on the 'no, nothing to see here, not social contagion' is that a friend's child and stepchild have apparently both come out as trans.

Dadjoke has made up his mind. Nothing little women say will make him reconsider.

I am not sure that he will double down. I am surprised to see the evangelistic dismissal of the social contagion issues.

I believed dadjoke once when he declared he was fighting to ensure children had access to the highest standard of health care. Yet, actively dismissing something such as social contagion the way that he has seems to be completely at odds with seeking best care and more along the lines of outsourcing critical thinking ability to embrace an ideological stance.

I would like to think that reading and listening to these WPATH files will make dadjoke, and others, finally start asking the questions that we all are asking. FFS. Country after country is now releasing statements saying there is such weak evidence. Even the Nederlands is rereviewing the papers their own country’s medical staff released that became the accepted protocol. How can any person proclaiming they are wanting best health care standards not start questioning ?

Unless that wanting best health care standards was just a superficial ploy and the real motivation was just to scold women who disagreed with him. Let’s see.

Dadjoke will just double down. To do otherwise would require an admission of harm or neglect.

This might be an interesting read.

https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/wpath-files

I typed a post saying just that, and then lost it!

There are studies out there recognising social contagion and how it works. But now we are to believe that there is what? No such thing as social contagion? No that it miraculously doesn’t apply to what is happening to children, or how this is impacting our children’s lives?

It just goes to show how deeply entrenched some beliefs are. When social contagion is desperately denied on an issue that many were/are desperate to have removed from having the stigma of mental health issues. Of course, the mental health issues must be actively dismissed. But just like the concept of changing sex doesn’t reflect material reality, and gender identity is a philosophical belief only, some people can deny social contagion all they like. That denial doesn’t reflect material reality.

When you watch a group of friends declare trans identities one by one so that 5 out of 7 have trans identities over a 6-12 month period, you realise that some people can deny material reality all they want, but one day they will need to own the harm of their denial.

Oh! Tumbleweed.

Sorry, @DadJoke

Oi! @DadJokeDadJoke

I have been bating my breath for two fucking days. When are you going to get back to those who asked about discrimination in the workplace?

Funny how it's recognised that social media is driving dissatisfaction with body image because of unrealistic representations due to airbrushing, filtering and perfect 'instaworld' but this is completely and utterly removed and separate from the contemporary parallel universe of Transworld which exists in its own special bubble.

My point stands about parallel social trends being Highly Relevant and part of the contextual political and social background for transactivism.

Social Contagion IS parallel social trends.

Funny how social contagion is recognised as a factor in eating disorders, in self harm and in suicide to take 3 examples. Particularly but not solely with teenage girls. But oh no, couldn't possibly be a factor for teenage girls suddenly believing their pubertal bodies are wrong and that changing sex will fix them.

Unbelievable the dangerous nonsense transactivists spout about children.

His warts are tingling.

How come we get the issue in schools where all the transkids appear mysteriously in the same friendship group?

It was obviously just random. And its pure coincedence these kids all have the same interests.

I mean, come on.

If someone is going to say theres a study in America from an organisation which has skin in the game and makes a lot of money from this tells us that theres no bias in it we should all just nod along like blind mice? Right?

Its not often I say that first hand evidence is better than a study, but jesus christ, this is one of them.

You'd have to be living on the moon not to be aware of the problem.

I mean, if social contagion wasn't an issue, why would social media be the battleground to win that it is? I mean social media is actively being used to recruit people as allies and to demonise people for not using 'polite' pronouns and for trying to intimidate people into believing that a woman is a social construct.

Clearly Dadjoke thinks we are THAT stupid.

I feel like multiple women's insights into the female experience are being denied by a bloke, even though we're the ones with lived experience of fanfiction, of being a teenage girl, and of being a teenage girl with trans-identifying friends.

Oh wait, that's because that's what's happening!

Social contagion is not a thing,

lol. Are we going to get that explanation of it being 'something in the water', when 70 kids in one school year all came out together?

What was it? Given that they all live near each other, all the mums must've drunk from the same source?

Transactivists everywhere are in a panic over Helen Joyce turning her attention to online influence and contagion.

No one, but no one, dadjoke, is buying what you're selling. It hasn't been bought for bloody years. You're behind the curve quite remarkably.

You see that, over there? That's a cat.

See what you've got in your hand?

It's the bag.

I'd like to know more about what you think 'being transgender' is.

Is it being literally 'born in the wrong body'? Until recently, this is what organisations like Stonewall and Mermaids asserted. They now deny ever having said this.

Is it a fetish? It now seems undeniable that this is the case for most older male transitioners as well as some younger males. It's obviously not the case for children or female transitioners.

Is it a reaction to trauma, sexual abuse, poor mental health or internalised homophobia? GIDS staff have suggested that issues such as these are at the root of trans identification for most of the young people who were referred to the clinic.

Or is it, in many cases, social contagion? Groups of friends "coming out" as trans simultaneously would suggest that there is an element of this.

If it's none of these, what exactly is it?

The links in the article will point you at the evidence, including a study with more than 27,000 participants, not a self-selected internet poll directed at gender critical parents.

I agree with you about the increase in pornification - I’m having to be really thorough in my reading of tags these days so I can avoid things I dislike or find unpleasant.

I’ve been reading fanfic since the early 2000s and, in recent years, the tone has most definitely changed in general and changed a lot in some fandoms. Kink elements in stories didn’t used to be so widespread (there were some ficcers who 'specialised' in it but they were the exception and considered weird), there wasn’t as much body modification fic (mpreg, genderswap, ageswap, omegas, transing of characters, torturefic etc.).

In my experience, Tumblr was where this sort of stuff really took hold and then made its way to AO3. Livejournal had dedicated communities for particular types of fic and writers tended to post in relevant (sometimes invite-only) communities for an audience who was interested in that type of story and a normie could easily avoid it. But on Tumblr the more explicit stuff wasn’t corralled and it spread like wildfire, and because Tumblr is quite a visual site there was/is an overlap with explicit fanart hosted on both Tumblr and DeviantArt.

Discord has also had quite an effect on the style of fic writing: a preference for ficlets, instead of longfic with character development and plot, and a preference for more extreme sexual or violence elements that a group of writers roleplay together while 'writing' the story. As for podfic, I never listen to it so I haven’t a handle on what’s going on in those communities.

As an adult living through these changes in fanfic, I found them shocking and unpleasant so I really do worry about adolescents being exposed to this stuff without the maturity and life experIence to help them contextualise it and realise that this isn’t always how it used to be.

So DadJoke's evidence is an article that consists mainly of denials by WPATH and written by an author who identifies as non-binary. Riiight.

https://statsforgender.org/social-influence/

Nothing to see here, move along people.