Restoring Sanity Takes Time - Helen Joyce

Not bullying - disagreeing.
Not men, but trans rights supporters.
And not women, but gender critical people.

It's bizarre that there are so many issues which most women face - reproductive rights, FGM, the wage gap. crime, sexual assault, and yet the supposed feminists here are obsessing about the 1/1000 women who are transgender, aligning themselves with groups which oppose feminist goals.

Humans aren't fish, mushrooms or crocodiles and mammals cannot change sex.

They're not actually girls though. It's a DSD.

And you are now here twisting this rather obviously.

'Almost every single supermarket, public body and company does not exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.'

Let's rephrase this.

Almost every single supermarket, public body and company [CAN] exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.

See how that works.

You are here telling us that just because at the moment some organisations do not choose to exclude, that this then is a RIGHT to be claimed by male people who declare they should have access to any single sex space. No. That they have access to that space right now is all they have the right to access. And notice the time limit I have added there. Because that so called access is not and was never a permanent 'right' as you are trying to convince someone that they had.

If those organisations choose to exclude, that is not removing a right. That is that organisation acting under the Act using the exceptions already there. It is removing access which was not a true 'right' in the sense that you are trying to use it.

Only a misogynistic thinker would consider what amounts to acting as if someone had the right to do something at one time and one place to be that that someone actually had the right to do something generally.

You doubling down and saying that because an organisation has not utilised an exception available to them, those male people have 'rights' does not make it their 'right' in any true sense.

Males pushing their way into women's facilities and then lobbying for guidance from the Equalities quango which supports this is the issue here.

"And no mammal has ever changed or will ever change sex."

www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/22/the-mysterious-village-where-girls-turn-into-boys/

They are mixed sex, both under the EA and in obvious biological reality. Stop gaslighting.

They are not, under the EqA. You can safely assume that any toilet in the UK which has a Women symbol on it accommodates trans women.

Some might say it's just misogyny in action.

Rather like the weird hobby so many male people of all gender identifies have of bullying women that they can't expect to have basic privacy and dignity, or a category for the class of humans who can give birth, as opposed to the ejaculator class.

Such a weird hobby - to spend so much time ruminating about, wishing and campaigning for trans people to be argued out of existence.

Most "trans women" are legally men as per the Equality Act 2010.

Only a few thousand of these males have a GRC and any claim to being a "woman" legally. Single sex spaces of any kind rely on the same EA exceptions. They are used all the time.

You can't have a single-sex space that includes people of both sexes. The idea is absolutely nonsensical. And no mammal has ever changed or will ever change sex.

What they always mean is that sex is an irrelevant little detail about people's lives that has absolutely no significance (something that I would expect a man to be far more likely to think than a woman). That what is important is gender, an undefined nebulous concept that is based entirely on individual cultures / historical periods and subjective feelings. Gender is basically sexism / sex stereotypes. There's no better definition that I've ever seen.

Thinking that women don't need single-sex spaces, that mixed-sex will do just fine, is an inherently misogynistic position.

No. Men never have the right to be in women's single sex spaces defined under the Act. Trans women do, with the exceptions noted. See the EHRC statutory guidance.

See my cross post. MTF trans people are not women - most of them unequivocally don't meet the EA criteria of being female.

What is a transwoman?

As the statutory guidance says

From an organisation until recently completely captured by TRAs. Who throw their toys out of the pram every time there is a move towards fairness and dignity for women and girls.

No. Men never have the right to be in women's single sex spaces defined under the Act. Trans women do, with the exceptions noted. See the EHRC statutory guidance.

Almost every single supermarket, public body and company does not exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.

I want them to be clear that their toilets are mixed sex.

How can you know that 'the majority of trans allies are women' if you believe anyone who says they're a woman is a woman? How many of those woman trans allies are women and how many identify as women?

The rest of your post is just lazy mud throwing - implying that women who don't agree to be in single sex spaces with males must be homophobic, anti abortion and right wing has been done to death, you've no receipts just smears.

I've literally just stated them. An important note is that providers CAN but DO NOT HAVE to exclude transgender people. The reasons must be exceptional.

Almost every single supermarket, public body and company does not exclude transgender people from toilets which match their gender identity. You want them to do so.

As the statutory guidance says:

If a service provider provides single- or separate sex services for women
and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should
treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present.
However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different
service or exclude a person from the service who is proposing to undergo, is
undergoing or who has undergone gender reassignment. This will only be
lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate end.

"any exception to the prohibition of discrimination must be applied as restrictively as possible and the denial of a service to a transsexual person should only occur in exceptional circumstances. A service provider can have a policy on provision of the service to transsexual users but should apply this policy on a case-by-case basis in order to determine whether the exclusion of a transsexual person is proportionate in the individual circumstances.

Exactly @Helleofabore

I also believe that we are in a situation where those 'exceptions' may need to be tested in court. What is happening is one lobby group has decided to misinform corporations and organisations as to the meaning of the EA thus creating a misunderstanding as to what can and cannot be considered an exception.

Kind of hard to argue that a right to a single sex space that was clearly understood, but then was socially changed and misrepresented as being legally changed, and now women are demanding to have those provisions put back to where they were is women 'removing' a right rather than correcting a misrepresentation in the first place.

But I guess if you are misogynistic in your thought process on this topic, some posters will continue to double down that some male people had a 'right' to access single sex spaces.

Men should not be entering a female only space, and they never should have been encouraged to believe it was ok.

'Sex assigned at birth'

Are we back to the whole sorting hat nonsense?