Elon Musk and new pronoun rules on Twitter

Use of preferred pronouns should not be dismissed as ‘harmless’ thing to do. There are mounting examples where pronoun usage has been directly linked to convincing organisations to make policies that harm female people. Such as McKinnon/Ivy convincing sporting organisations as an academic that to deny male inclusion in female sports category would be cruel since the world views them as ‘female’. Because they have ‘female’ pronouns.

This argument has been used successfully repeatedly.

Also, in situations where women and girls are expecting a female single sex provision, someone using a ‘preferred’ pronoun may mean that women and girls using that provision are now under the belief that a person there is ‘female’ when they are not. How ‘kind’ is that? So, no. Using ‘preferred’ pronouns should never be dismissed as a harmless act.

And that is without even touching on the impact it can have on children- including those who claim to have a trans identity.

Because pronouns don’t belong to the person who decides to change the English language to suit their identity. They obviously can choose their name, but not how people speak about them when they are not there. A name reflects material reality. It is a unique identifier for that person.

Pronouns are not unique identifers in many people’s opinion. They follow the language constructs that we need for communication.

You, personally, wish to support someone’s philosophical belief about themselves. That is fine. Others don’t wish to support that belief for valid reasons of their own.

No, it isn't. No-one compels you to use X/Twitter.

So much for free speech

It's not a free speech issue. Like MN, it's a privately owned website, and no-one has to use it. They can apply whatever rules they like.

100%.

If someone’s pronouns are they/them and you’re constantly finding a way to refer to them as he/him or she/her to piss them off, why should that be allowed?

I don’t understand why you’d purposely call someone something different to what they’ve asked to be called. One of my managers is non binary and their pronouns are they/them, it’s not really hard to stick to that

I think I remember that poster of old. So not a new ticket holder, more like an occasional flyer.

I'm not on Twit/x but if I were, I would not use inaccurate
pronouns, but use the person's name every time, no matter how clunky.
Or leave.

I concur.

Is it just me or are they selling tickets somewhere for people to do drive by insults at Mumsnet users at the moment?

There seems to have been a recent influx of "you are all terrible bigoted Arseholes" posters.

Yes Bananas. If someone has declared their pronouns and people don’t use those pronouns and are reported, they will be punished by Twitter.

It is not free speech at all. The entire framing of using pronouns is kind and it is to be followed by everyone in the world is absolutely abusive and coercive control. But apparently, it is ok because it is ‘kind’ and ‘nice’ to do so.

Apart from the compelled speech side of it, the ignorance of grammar is grating. Then there's the fact no one even uses pronouns for anyone when they're talking to that person. Why would you when the person is right there?!

According to what twitter actually wrote, that IS the problem. You’re failing to use the pronouns they use themselves. 🤯

Because saying that they will punish people for using pronouns that aren’t what an individual wants everyone else to use when they talk about or think about them sounds less like victimisation and more like control.

More than anything, all this pronouns nonsense is indicative of the sad state of grammar knowledge in society.

People are so confused about it that somehow ‘he said he liked cake’ is now direct harassment addressed at the cake-liking individual.

I hate all this BS. Surely a person uses I or me as their pronoun, I would never use those for someone else..... No problem.

Methinks the loonie part was just projection.

Usually you don’t address people in the third person though. And second person pronouns are gender neutral.

So the complaint is how people are talking about them, not how they’re addressing them personally.

It actually says the problem is using different pronouns than they’d use for themselves.

I assume most of them use I/me/myself for themselves. So presumably everyone is being dreadful bigots by using second or third person pronouns. We should pedantically be referring to them using the pronouns they use for themselves.

Unless they’re weirdos that refer to themselves in the third person, I assume that’s I/me.

Completely agree. If you're repeatedly tweeting at someone using the wrong pronouns to intentionally wind them up / distress them, it is harassment and shouldn't be tolerated.

Realised that’s very Anglo centric of me. Tu instead of usted, then?

How would one ‘address someone’ with the wrong pronouns? 🤔 U instead of you?

We don’t do it for another group, yet some people believe lying is appropriate for this group?

Why have some people given abusers the coercive power over society? And by that, I am not saying all trans people are abusers by the way.

The entire statement ‘uses different pronouns than a person uses for themselves’ is actually nonsensical.

I use the pronouns I and me for myself. As do we all.

Everything about the 2020s obsession with pronouns is about controlling how other people think and speak about you.

People should protest by only using the pronouns I and me to refer to everyone.

Because it's a lie. Humans can't change sex. It's compelled speech.