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Original poster

Government Petition For BBC To Record Sex Accurately - Interested?

30 replies

NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 19:09

Hi all,

Already a poster, but have name changed for this.

Recent events have had me writing for the last 24 hours on & off to draft a government petition requesting a debate on accurate reporting of offenders' sex by the BBC. I was up til 2am last night on it and have finished it now - pleased with the wording given the restrictions on number of characters, & with one friend all ready to sign as one of the initial 5 needed...

BUT...

I've got to put my name to it. Like others on here, in the current context that feels like a huge deal. I mean, the odds are that it'll fizzle into nothing, but if it doesn't, there are such genuine risks associated with putting yourself out there on this issue that, yes, it concerns me.

I was on the cusp of going for it, then asked a friend's advice. She's totally on board, rational & understated... yet her response can best be summed up as, "Hell no - don't do it!" She mentioned family & work among other concerns. It hit quite hard.

It maddens me that we're at the point where a woman is wary of putting her name to a carefully worded, factually grounded & empathetic petition asking Parliament to respect the truth and her rights - it's a measure of how bad things are. But, thinking of family & emotional health, it has, regrettably, given me pause.

So. To get to the point.

This friend suggested doing it via an organisation - I wondered about eg. Sex Matters. But then, if they were going to petition Parliament on this, surely they would have done so already (and they don't need my input or words to do so!) Any thoughts?

Alternatively, I wondered if one of you lovely people wanted to join forces. If there's someone out there who's feeling, as I did 24 hours ago, that they'd like to put something together but just can't face the effort to word it - if THAT was the hard bit for you - then I've done it. If you wanted to take over, to take it to the next stage - upload it etc. - then I could share what I've written, you could agree / edit / disregard or re-write as preferred, & I could offer my signature in support...

Then, with your courage and my words... etc. etc. etc.! This whole thing is about teamwork, after all.

I hope this doesn't sound hypocritical or weak, but, rather, is taken in the spirit in which it's intended: I want, so desperately, to take action, but, like so many of us, worry about the implications.

If there's anyone braver - or more foolish! - than me out there... Let me know.

Alternatively, if you'd be up for being an initial signatory, do also let me know. I've not yet decided against posting it myself; it's just a matter of which I worry I may regret more: doing it, or not doing it!

PS Haven't yet sussed the personal message function, but am sure can work it out; maybe just let me know on this thread if you decide to PM me. Or just use the thread.

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Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 02/03/2024 09:12

I guess another ugly consideration is the implications of inviting government interference in the language the BBC uses in this era of alternative facts. If the BBC can, effectively, argue (through the complaints it rejects or upholds) that describing a transwoman as male is biased while applying "female" in this context is objective, then we really are in a dangerous realm in which reality is what the powerful say it is. Do we want to invite the government to the party with the BBC in this? They're already having enough fun with it at the dispatch box (dear Keir...)

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Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 02/03/2024 08:56

Thanks, all.

I meant to mention above, but haven’t made it very clear, that I’ve emailed to ask about validity - I hope it will be as the Beeb is my focus as our national, „impartial“ broadcaster! I asked in my email whether I could refer to the media more generically as you suggest, Sloth, but wondered if this would be within the government‘s power, too! 🤷 I didn’t think of OfCom - an excellent idea!!!

I’ve also emailed Sex Matters to ask for help.

I did consider targeting crime recording, but went for media reporting as I personally think that is, rather, the root cause! It’s all a bit chicken & egg of course, but the BBC‘s refs to „having to say what the police say“ are evasive nonsense - IPSO makes it very clear they’re not limited by this - & the public will never hear about what the police are doing without the media being honest about it. It’s the media that enables this - the BBC is strategically directing how the nation responds to this issue. And that disgusts & frightens me.

OP posts:
Hmmmidontthinkso · 02/03/2024 08:29

The mere fact that to produce a petition to uphold facts is so potentially dangerous is awful. 😪

Slothtoes · 02/03/2024 08:28

Brilliant idea OP but I wonder if you’re looking at two petitions. Could this be rewritten as a petition to force MoJ to record male crimes as male crimes?

At the same time, start another one to deal with misattributed crime reporting in broadcast media (all broadcasters- not just BBC) and address that one to broadcast regulator OfCom?

Yirk · 02/03/2024 08:24

Could you get in touch with womens organisations such as SexMatters or Womens Rights Network?
They may be helpful in compiling the petition.

Chickenrunning · 02/03/2024 08:23

I would sign it if it went up, but I agree I don’t think it will be accepted as I don’t think it is within the remit of Parliament. I would definitely sign one to address the root cause which is to force police forces to record crime by sex.

Coffeestain · 02/03/2024 08:15

Agree with last few posters. Parliament does not control the BBC.
Could it be recast as a petition on recording the sex of criminals? There was a thread on that recently and I presume Parliament would get a say in this.

Ofcourseshecan · 02/03/2024 07:06

OP, I don’t think the government has any authority over the BBC or other media sources.

What the government can do is insist that all official statistics must record sex accurately. I would support a petition asking the government to do this.

Gender identity could be added as an extra option (not an alternative), and would be relevant in some cases eg crime statistics. But correctly recording sex is essential.

Statistics are worthless if based on incorrect information, and we know that is happening now.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:32

https://petition.parliament.uk/help

"Standards for petitons
Petitions must call for a specific action from the UK Government or the House of Commons. Petitions must be about something that the Government or the House of Commons is directly responsible for."

How petitions work

https://petition.parliament.uk/help

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:26

And of course the BBC is 'a law unto itself' (although less than it should be). It may be a state-funded broadcaster, but it is specifically and explicitly set up to be independent of government.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:24

The point is it won't get get debated.

A petition will not be accepted to go up on the site for signing, never mind getting any government response or debate, if the matter is not within parliament's remit.

Fruityful · 01/03/2024 23:21

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:02

Is this within the remit of parliamentary petitions?

There could certainly be one on accurate recording of crimes by ONS and police forces, but I don't think parliament actually has control of the language used by the BBC. If it doesn't, the petition won't be accepted.

I'm not sure. But getting it debated would carry some weight in and of itself. And if Parliament doesn't have the remit to do this then it highlights that the BBC is a law unto itself in a way.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:07

I think the wider point about the difficulty of raising a petition at all is an excellent one. But no point putting effort into one that will fall at the first hurdle.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 01/03/2024 23:02

Is this within the remit of parliamentary petitions?

There could certainly be one on accurate recording of crimes by ONS and police forces, but I don't think parliament actually has control of the language used by the BBC. If it doesn't, the petition won't be accepted.

99doshredballoons · 01/03/2024 21:44

This is what the ‘BBC Style Guide’ says

’Transgender, or trans, is an umbrella term for a person whose gender identity differs from their sex recorded at birth. A person born male who lives as a female, would typically be described as a “transgender woman” and would take the pronoun “she”. And vice versa. We generally use the term and pronoun preferred by the person in question, unless there are editorial reasons not to do so. If that’s unknown – apply that which fits with the way the person lives publicly. If reporting on someone who is making their transition public, it may be appropriate to refer to their previous identity to help audience understanding. It may also be appropriate to refer to a transition to make sense of some stories.’

They also have the category ‘gender / sex’. As if interchangeable. What a load of bs. So simplistic, so facile. So basic it’s embarrassing. No consideration of context or reality. Or consequences.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/g

G

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/g

Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 21:40

Thanks so much, Fruity. Posts not getting much traction here today - not sure why - so input especially appreciated. :)

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Fruityful · 01/03/2024 21:22

That's very well-written. It's concise, clear and relevant. The only thought I had is if it would gain more traction if it generalised in both directions rather than specific examples being focused on MtF. But there are strict word limits and this is the most important consequence. I don't think it would make any difference and quite possibly would detract. So well done, imo. That is excellent work. I'm sure it would get quite a few sign-ups from here and if it can get featured in more mainstream places, it should get more. Even if you don't put this up under your own name, you should still be proud of it.

Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 21:10

@Fruityful 😂

OP posts:
Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 21:07

The draft is below.

A few details: 1) It looks brief, but is right up* *to the character limit on each of the three sections. 2) The second section doesn't directly address the prompt, but this is intentional; if you look on the website, the three sections are published as three sequential paragraphs creating an overall argument without sub-headings, so I've written them to fit this final presentation; 3) It's deliberately focussed on a very specific issue, & worded to encourage a wide range of signatories. It's also, quite simply, what I believe.

Dunno if it looks likely to achieve that, of course! 😅

If anyone is interested, please do get in touch. In the meantime, I'm hoping for a reply from the Committee (incl. on its validity as it's organisation-specific - see standards outlined on website) and/or Sex Matters now too, so am not uploading anything for a while at least (if ever!)

What do you want us to do?

Address BBC bias to prevent it from misleading the public about offenders' sex.

Tell us more about what you want the Government or Parliament to do.

Reporting on "sex or gender identity [should be] accurate” and journalists should not publish "misleading information” (IPSO). However, the BBC refers to trans women offenders as “women” and “female”. In contrast, it upheld a complaint of bias after a presenter mentioned trans sportswomen are male.

Tell us more about why you want the Government or Parliament to do it.

This has concerning implications for democracy. Re-defining "woman” and “female” to describe male offenders erases the words women need to advocate for sex-based rights, erodes public trust in the media and inflames tensions in this debate. The public cannot be aware of, understand, and discuss concerns such as single-sex provision, prisons and robust data collection without clear language and accurate information. Our national broadcaster must not distort public understanding of these issues.

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99doshredballoons · 01/03/2024 20:53

Look this. We are in a position where we are not confident to put our names to starting a petition about (essentially) saying sex is real and sex matters, for fear of reprisals. Such an unbelievable state of affairs. Where is our free speech? Our human rights. This is shocking.

Fruityful · 01/03/2024 20:53

And if that doesn't work, you could always nail it to Westminster doors in the middle of the night, Martin Luther style.

Fruityful · 01/03/2024 20:52

I wont advise you either way. You're not wrong that there are risks, you're not wrong that there might be fallout for you personally for putting your name to this.

But I will say from personal experience that once you do it there's a liberation you feel for not having given in and you also find new friends and support you didn't expect. What you find, sometimes, is not that there weren't consequences but that you could handle them.

It's entirely your call and I think everybody understands the fear of standing up - because that fear is justified. I'm just saying that you're more resilient than you think. Fear is how so few can control so many.

I'd also like to see this petition and I'm sure others would to. Once submitted it can't be edited I think. So getting feedback before it goes up (from whoever). is a good idea

Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 20:51

Let me know if you find anything different, though!

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Original poster
NameChangeForPetition · 01/03/2024 20:49

Googled that. Get the impression there are issues with legality that could undermine any progress the petition makes... :(

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99doshredballoons · 01/03/2024 20:48

Know what you mean. Can it be done with a pseudonym? Robert Galbraith? ..

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