Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

Same with Brexit and immigration. In reality, membership of the EU had little to do with illegal immigration or with total immigration, as evidenced by the fact that both have increased since we left. However, the perception of a link was very strong, but no one was allowed to talk about immigration without being labelled a bigot (looking at you, Gordon Brown). New Labour and the media told the public what they should think, and suppressed dissenting views.

Did this make the issue go away? Nope, it:

1. created a wedge issue, which the Tories were able to exploit
2. undermined the public's trust in the Establishment.
3. ultimately led to an over-correction (Brexit), which might have been avoidable, had the public been allowed to express legitimate concerns.

(1) and (2) have already happened with trans issues. (3) may well happen in due course.

As with immigration, some people with strong views on trans issues (both sides) will be animated by prejudice. But it is perfectly possible to have views that conflict with what the Establishment are telling us to think, without being a bigot.

Telling people to stop thinking what they think is not an effective strategy and is ultimately counter-productive.

Everything but the last one.

So you do think labour will bring in "hate speech" laws.

What would you like to see included?

Criminalising women who say things like "transwomen are men" perhaps?
Or using pronouns that refer to a person's sex rather than their "gender identity"?
Or maybe someone raising concerns that their child has been groomed online by trans activists?
Or maybe the criminalisation of therapists who say they don't believe in gender identity?
Conversations held in private as well as in public?

What would stop this GI gravy train is if all those against it, did vote Tory. Yes, it’s hard but it’s for a good reason - because of the message it sends to the other parties. They’d be falling over themselves to guarantee to us that self ID will never happen.

Hilary Cass has been 'captured' by you lot.

Children should be free to socially transition at school without their parents knowledge. It should be a place where they can explore their identities without parental interference.

Spoiled papers don’t get read out. They’re put in a box and verified as spoiled by the supervisor and counted. There’s a lot of talk about “hating the lot of them, going to spoil my ballot paper” but when push comes to shove the number of voters who do so is absolutely tiny.

'Hate' meaning saying things that are heretical to your beliefs like 'that person is a man'?

"Will nobody think of the people who don't want children to develop boundaries." Bit of a red flag you're flying there mate.

Bit of a weird response. "It's not unregulated online 'advice' and content whose 'game will be up', it's you parents who are interested in what your kids are doing". Definitely nothing suspect about that position.

Slow hand clap

What generally happens when a captive population gets really, really pissed off?

The plan - about ten years ago - was to be firm with women and they'd know their place, shut up and get used to it.

How is that going so far?

And wtf is wrong with someone who thinks 'the time will be up' for LGB people, women's rights, child safeguarding, access and inclusion of minority groups and women being raped by disturbed men locked in prisons with them and does not have a problem with this?

It's right up there with miaowing at judges.

Your obsession with discipline and boundaries is what makes your movement fascistic. The job of teachers is to educate, not to make children learn to submit to 'authority.' That's the real totalitarianism.

Why do you think the game will be up? Is it because you think Labour will bring in such draconian legislation that women will no longer be able to lawfully speak about women's rights and safeguarding of children without receiving a criminal conviction? Do you think the silencing of women is likely to work in the long run?

Hmmmm. I think after the election it's you lot for whom the game is up.

Back to the OP Labour's draft policy already states they'll extend 'hate crime' legislation, make the GRC process easier and bring in a trans-inclusive conversion therapy ban.

It's a massive derail. There's a lot of it about.

FWIW my gut feeling is that yes Labour will "streamline" the GRC process so that it may as well be self ID. But no they won't implement overly restrictive hate speech laws that undermine free speech. I think they can get the members on board with the 1st but not the 2nd.

I’m wondering how a thread about Self ID and freedom of speech under Labour has descended into an argument about whether or not schools are pushing trans ideology onto children under a Tory government. Is there a link or is this a massive derail?

Well worth a read and yes, probably a thread.

We ought to know who political parties are working for. And understand that for the most part it's not the electorate.

@AdamRyan

Hang on a minute so is it the case that Tories removing the whip from Andersson over racist remarks is evidence that the Tories are racist. And Labour blocking the Rochdale candidate over racist remarks is evidence that Labour are tackling racism?

I can't see what the problem is here.

The NHS is desperately underfunded. Its certainly not funded enough to give everybody everything they think they need to make them happy.

It's debatable whether it should be funding IVF for anyone. But a couple who haven't achieved a pregnancy after two years of regular sex do at least have a medical problem.

A lesbian couple don't.

A rule that only infertile people are eligible to have fertility treatment paid for by taxpayers is not discrimination.

You think Hilary Cass is one of 'your lot'?

Are you actually saying secretly transitioning children behind parents' backs is 'unquestionably the right thing to do', or have I misunderstood? Because that's quite a surprising assertion.

What is eroding education and teacher's mental health is very badly behaved pupils, and parents who don't support the school in its attempts to enforce discipline and boundaries, but who make complaints against teachers instead.