Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

Or Tony Soprano in the waste management business 🤔

I'm not sure why we have to agree on this. Different opinions are allowed, I believe.

PP82 · Today 17:02

He probably knows quite a lot about the education system then. What a sneering post.

It's not sneering at all. I was merely pointing out that you had given the impression that you are a highly qualified educator, to give your words authority. It's a bit like "I'm in the recycling business," which most people would probably conclude that the person talking was the business owner, not a bin man.

Maybe @AdamRyan and @PP82 can have a quick chat amongst themselves and decide whether fascists are already in government or not an imminent threat to the UK then get back to us?

I wonder if the Tories will actually get round to banning "conversion therapy" before the next GE. This will be another area where freedom of speech is undermined when / if it is finally brought in as legislation particularly in relation to trans "conversion therapy". Also the expansion of the online harms legislation. I think there are several areas of potential concern. it'll be interesting to what Labour have to say in relation to this once they start campaigning closer to the GE.

He probably knows quite a lot about the education system then.

What a sneering post.

PP82 · Today 15:06

You have no idea of my professional or academic background. I've worked with children and in education for more than 20 years, in many different types of settings, in different roles, different countries, continents, cultures.

That could mean anything, such as our neighbour, who has worked in a number of educational institutions for about 30 years.

He's a janitor and groundskeeper.

There are/have been people in positions of power in the UK who are fascists. Rees Mogg, Gove, Badenoch, Braverman, Truss, Patel.

None of these things are happening, it's just unhinged, paranoid thinking by people who have a very odd conception of what women's rights actually are. No one is trying to ban homosexuality and promoting inclusive language is definitely not evidence of extreme, repressive belief.

I didn't say that did I?

I said I'm worried about attacks on our democratic system by people who are showing fascist tendencies.

The difference between me and a fascist is I think we can get out of that by voting and protecting our public services. Fascists think we get out of it by electing a "man of the people" to "take back control" by asserting their will.

You don't think saying that we are in imminent danger of becoming an authoritarian fascist state is playing on people's fear?

I'm not doing it. Because the characteristic is "appeal to emotion not fact". I post facts, evidence to support my argument. Others post scaremongering about capture and "you can't believe them, they lie"

No you come off it

I said "You know undermining public systems (like schools and education) and eroding trust in experts (like teachers) is one of the hallmarks of fascism, right?" And you said it was also a hallmark of communism, which I asked for a link about. You've made a straw man of my view (as shown by what you have just posted) and are now getting irate.

I don't think there is evidence that communists systematically undermine public institutions. Fascists do.

@AdamRyan

I agree.
What is fascist is to spread communications that there is an organised threat to "our" way of life from outsiders that they can only be saved from by the right kind of leadership.

So.. you're planning to stop doing this then?

I wish there was a sodding block button on Mumsnet!

Oh come off it. You asked for evidence that the far left / communists use education to control children, separate them from their parents and use education to undermine systems of power. I and another poster have provided some links for you to read. Now you say that we have misunderstood you and you cba to explain what it was you meant.

And Adam ...are you perhaps suffering from 'Correctile' Dysfunction? ;-)

Starmer is surrounded by moon-barkers like Lisa Nandy who says child rapists can do time in a female prison and have their crime recorded as that of a woman. Labour are also persecuting GC MPs.

I hate the Tories but I will hold my nose and vote Conservative on this single issue alone ... then again I'm in Scotland so the alternative is the Scottish Nasty Party who HATE women (self-ID, conversion therapy bill, hate speech legislation etc.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8012193/Labour-trans-rights-row-Lisa-Nandy-says-rapists-transition-sent-womens-prisons.html

Not sure you've understood some posts on here Adam judging by some of your comments?

But don't worry. Posters will keep trying to explain That's the brilliant thing about Mumsnet - full of women ready to research, clarify and discuss in order to protect women's rights and ensure our children thrive and are safe. 😊

Have you just googled who Netanyahu is by any chance?

Yes I think you have. But I cba to discuss it really. Just Google "can fascists be left wing?" And read what cleverer people that me have to say on the matter.

It's hard to imagine how posters here managed before you arrived to explain everything, Adam.

I agree.
What is fascist is to spread communications that there is an organised threat to "our" way of life from outsiders that they can only be saved from by the right kind of leadership.

That there are shadowy "elites" who have captured and controlled our democratic institutions to let the "others" in (schools, civil service etc) and the institutes can't be trusted.

You can spot fascist thinking by the language people use. Anything appealing to emotion (particularly fear) can indicate fascism. Fascism is dependent on appeal to emotion rather than facts.

"Schools are transitioning children" - fear inducing that your child is going to be transed so don't trust schools.

"Islamists are running London" - fear inducing that "the other" have taken control, so don't trust politicians.

"The police are totally captured" '- fear inducing that "the other" have taken control, so don't trust police.

"We are subject to mob rule" - fear inducing that "the other" have taken control and a strong ruler is needed to take it back.

There is not evidence to back the strength of these statements. They are designed to appeal to fear, not fact. Hence, fascist.

I haven't read the full thread (yet) so I didn't know if I'd misinterpreted something the PP had said. Control and separation have been a well-known tactic of the far left.

In Cambodia:
In order to enforce loyalty to the state, the Khmer Rouge broke peoples’ ties to religion and family. All political and civil rights were abolished. Formal education ceased and from January 1977, all children from the age of eight were separated from their parents and placed in labour camps, which taught them that the state was their ‘true’ parents. For the Khmer Rouge, children were central to the revolution as they believed they could be easily moulded, conditioned and indoctrinated.

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/cambodia/khmer-rouge-ideology/