Yvette cooper - bio sex & gender v separate

One tick each time they say it, and a second tick if they actually have been.

You won't need boxes large enough for 2 ticks.

"we've been very clear on that"
One giant bingo card, with that written at the top, and hundreds of little boxes below to check off every time a politician says that... make that thousands of little boxes...🙄

All YC ( and the rest of them) needs to do is to use the correct pronouns for male people and female people. It really isn’t hard to do, she has probably been doing it all her life apart from the last couple of years.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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We need to know how bias is affecting judgment.

Every word of that. On that salary they should bloody well do better than this.

Yes to the "look, sex and gender are different and we've been very clear on that, and the need to protect women's safe [sic] spaces" which then suddenly descends in to stuttering and stammering incoherence as soon as they are asked to take that principle one tiny step further and explain their position.

It's frankly not good enough for front-bench Labour shadow MPs to still, STILL!, not have as good a grasp on this issue as 5,000 random women on TERF-Island twitter.

This is your god damn job, get your shit together Yvette. You're 7 years behind.

Exactly this - which is why I won’t be voting Labour.

😂😂

You're right nauticant, I keep forgetting

You're showing old-fashioned thinking Floisme. Either you're for the Tories in which case you can criticise Labour, or you're for Labour in which case you can criticise the Tories.

Anything else involves critical thinking and who bothers with that these days? Takes too much effort.

The subject of this thread is the Labour Party and specifically the Shadow Home Secretary.

Regarding the Conservatives - I'm not going to try and speak for other posters but I've said more than once on other threads that a party that chooses a leader who's known for their dishonesty can't complain when no-one believes a word they say.

Lots of comments on here on the topic of trusting politicians. How anyone could trust the Tories on anything after the past 14 years is beyond me.

They all talk about this as if its simple, and everyone understands it. Then they become flustered trying to justify whats going on.

Yes quite - when a politician who's experienced and accomplished enough to have stood as party leader (and who may still have ambitions - who knows) is reduced to flailing and floundering on mainstream radio then something is off.

Whatever happened to 'Let me be clear'?

Im having trouble sympathising with MPs about this.

They all talk about this as if its simple, and everyone understands it. Then they become flustered trying to justify whats going on.

Does every politician use sex and gender to mean two distinct things everytime they speak? Or is it just something they say in situation like these when they are caught conflating the two?

What she says is not equivalent to "not knowing how they record crime statistics".

I interpret it as knowing exactly how they record crime statistics so knowing the answer is going to be controversial, and not wanting to land the civil servants in the home office in it.

I have a feeling that it might even be in the ministerial code that you don't criticise civil servants in media appearances so maybe she was doing her job. We just aren't used to that at the moment.

Not on the basis of their personal characteristics though. Because that would be racist/sexist/homophobic or whatever

I wonder how she'd have answered if the interview had been today - she wouldn't have been able to hide behind, 'I don't know'.

Exactly. She isn't a Labour backbencher who was ambushed, she is the Shadow Home Secretary

Yes Floisme If she doesn’t know about this when it is a key news item, what else doesn’t she know or hasn’t found out? It is her shadow job role ffs. Especially as the Telegraph had more information about this this morning .

I keep looking back at that transcript where Yvette Cooper, Shadow Home Secretary claims not to know how the Home Office records crime statistics:

'I think obviously the Home Office will need to make that clear. That's a matter for them so I don't know what answer the Home Office will give.'

She didn't even add, 'And I will be very interested in their answer'.
Not only does that display ignorance but also an alarming lack of curiosity from someone whose job is to hold the government to account.

I'm afraid at this point, anything they 'say' is worthless. I won't have the faintest trust until there's actions demonstrating and acting on those beliefs, protecting women, children, LGB people, equality for all instead of one having primacy over eight other protected characteristics, and women's equality of access to facilities with excitingly identitied men.

Actions. Not words.

There was a saying a friend used to have : 'they can make their mouths say anything'.

I listened to Cooper on WH and my impression is that she's reached a fence-sitting position she was happy with: most oppressed™, #bekind, sex and gender are different, transwomen are women (sort of), a fuzzy position on women's rights, etc but when the Scarlet Blake question came out of the blue she is a wily enough politician to realise that the safe fence-sitting was unlike to cut it because it would mean qualifying women's rights to benefit a sadistic murderer and that could go badly in the media.

So she had to play it by ear in the interview which is why she sounded more incoherent than she would normally have done.

Hear, hear!