Sexist and dangerous Samaritans ad

"The campaign is based on research by Middlesex University and developed in consultation with people who have been personally affected by suicide. Before the launch across digital and traditional media, as well as with posters in railway settings, the campaign’s potential effectiveness was tested with commuters, the public and people with lived experience*

They should have tested it on Mumsnet.

What, over people who have actual lived experience of feeling suicidal?
I think they'd be better placed to say what is effective at "pulling them out of it" than mumsnetters.

I think it’s the general social turn we’re having, back towards holding women responsible for men’s behaviour. He felt troubled? It’s women’s job to save his mental health. He felt unsafe in the loos? Women are not being kind enough to him. Etc. etc.

Budge up, women! You are doing so great that you need to share all your privileges around by “being kind” to men.

If this ad was really aimed at getting people to speak up and intervene, why isn’t it aimed at other men? Why aren’t the organisation spending that money on an ad raising awareness of the awful lack of mental health services and properly trained crisis help? Or to tell the guard? Or petitioning for better train barriers at stations that prevent track access? (There’s a huge case for these on accident grounds too, with many people seriously hurt every year in accidental track falls, but the rail networks resist them because - surprise - they are expensive.) Cheaper to guilt female passers-by than actually provide proper mental health services and safety provision. Of course it is.

I was thinking it could be used the other way round, as in giving an excuse to the tripier sort of man to approach any young woman & start talking to her with the excuse that he thought she might be suicidal. You know they will, they've tried everything else.

I saw the longer ad too (thanks to whoever put it up) & the 'cool self' really annoyed me - she was so rude! So that would put me off taking the ad's advice, quite apart from the rest of it.

I think the idea is to make you think about whether it is preventable or not.

And? They could have stopped long enough to think how a Yes/No question would land on anyone who's ever wanted to prevent a suicide. Not even a "sometimes".

It is honestly much better than that Sams advert because it tells you what to do after you've started that conversation.

Sure, fine, might be useful for everyone who gets as far as seeing it.

The campaign is based on research by Middlesex University and developed in consultation with people who have been personally affected by suicide. Before the launch across digital and traditional media, as well as with posters in railway settings, the campaign’s potential effectiveness was tested with commuters, the public and people with lived experience.

They should have tested it on Mumsnet.

I don’t understand this shift in attitude towards suicide. Sadly when I was a teen a friend committed suicide and another friend attempted it. It was drummed into us this was not anyone else’s fault or responsibility and if someone is determined to do it they will.

Now we have parents suing universities for not preventing their adult children doing this and random women being petitioned to step in. Has there been a change in thinking on this?

I think the idea is to make you think about whether it is preventable or not.

It is honestly much better than that Sams advert because it tells you what to do after you've started that conversation.

And, against my better judgement, I'm going to suggest that the stereotyping of Black women as sexually "loose" might have played a part in those casting and scripting decisions.

<<hides in nuclear bunker>>

This reminds me of a plumber describing his marathon running in mind numbing detail and me responding vaguely, gosh you’re very fit. He looked quite disturbed but I’m in my 60’s and forgot that ‘fit’ has a different meaning with the young!

^^ This. Or a male bystander helping him? Why does it make use of an emotionally-blackmailing notion of women as support human for everyone out and about, which as pp have said, plays on a split between “good sociable woman” and “uptight antisocial woman”?

Representations like this don’t just get in ads by accident. A whole team of people will have sat there deciding that the “bad” version of the woman should look dowdy and anxious, next to the “good” version of the woman (looks cooler, more appealing, more laid-back). They have deliberately designed it to play on women’s highly socialised cues to be “kind, helpful, appealing” etc. etc.

I for one find that immensely manipulative and irresponsible. It shouldn’t be the burden of ordinary women to “save” disturbed or troubled men. We are not just nice therapists and mother/girlfriend figures dotted around the landscape for men’s benefit when they need it. Not to mention the safety issues of encouraging lone women to approach strange men, who may be disturbed or a danger.

That campaign looks bollocks too... "Small talk saves lives", really?
Someone determined on jumping in front of a train would have had these thoughts for a long while and likely received support from various places already. A "small talk" with some random woman off the bench isn't going to suddenly make him not suicidal.

I'm not going to find out what content it feeds anyone. Couldn't get past that question.

I wouldn't be surprised if the coffee line was deliberate just as the makeover the 'good' girl got clearly wasn't an accident. They could have gone with something very neutral like " nice weather we're having" but they didn't.

I'm just thinking in many stations with staff, you'd be asking him where to get coffee while standing outside the station shop/cafe or next to the Costa machine. A good chunk of the rest would be in the middle of nowhere. Or in a wee town with amenities that won't open for two hours or closed two hours ago. Poor guy has potentially enough to deal with without a weird woman coming on to him or asking a stupid question to which the answer is, respectively 'duh!', 'how the fuck should I know!' or 'at this time!!!!!'

The intention is good, but we all know where that road leads. Perhaps they should have given it more than 5 seconds of thought and also considered the feelings and safety of the woman support person asking the question.

Any chance it feeds you different content depending on your answer?

In a similar situation, if it looked like someone was thinking of suicide, I would tell them about the aftermath for the poor train driver
Jeez, that'll pull them out and make them think twice! Not
WTF
I have in fact stopped people from thinking this is a good way to off themselves by telling them this, though not while they were actively suicidal

Not whilst they were suicidal - yep, not comparable then as really can't see putting that on a potentially suicidal person would make them feel better, probably make them feel even worse if that's possible, and would definitely be likely to "spiral" more!

(But seriously, go do the ZSA online training now, before you scroll and more of mumsnet. Please. https://zsa.frank-cdn.uk/scorm/full-training/story.html)

I was going to look at it but it started off by insisting I answer the question "Do I believe suicide is preventable" with Yes or No before I was allowed to look. What a stupid tactless bloody question. (Sorry)

In NI we have had some local ad campaigns along those lines, with some level of success, so this is probably a good idea.

I've seen Samaritans posters for several years now in my local railway station with a message on them about asking where can I get a coffee, and I've always thought it was a strange line to pick, especially in a public transport situation where the obvious small talk would be delays, cancellations, timetables etc.

The whole advert is a little better than the short clip - eg shows other people, suggests they could help, shows her approach to the man keeps her at bit of a distance and behind, not beside him.
but the mixed message is there- shes apparently meant to 'trust her instincts' but cool girl alternative talks/mocks her out of them, and the lame coffee line remains open to misinterpretation

Agree with Apollo - much less sexual tension in offering tea

Don't tell me "where can I get a coffee" cannot be misinterpreted as flirting when me asking a boiler guy if he had a lot of jobs in the area that day (he'd been moaning about being allocated an area out of his usual patch) invited him to ask "why, do you want me to come back when I'm finished?" With a smirk and a raised eyebrow. Like an actual porn film.

Was very awkward when i said no, i was just chit chatting and was going to let him know if he didn't get to the slip road before 4pm he'd be stuck in traffic for ages.

Here's an old advert from 5 years ago. Why is she stood so close? I assumed at first that he must have been her partner.
At least she wasn't asking him about coffee.

Any use of the word 'coffee' is problematic, tbh. It's too easy to be seen as practically code for sex. Which makes it an even bloody weirder advert.

Yep.

I've approached a distressed man before to see if I could help (I'm fucking naive idiot sometimes). He turned on me in rage, swearing, shouting, advancing towards me.

It's a highly irresponsible and fucking stupid advert but try explaining that to people and they will be indignant that women suggest they differentiate themselves from doormats. We're to prioritise men's mental health, not our own safety. Obvs.