Sexist and dangerous Samaritans ad

Your username is Samaritansadvert? We're co-ordinating an organised attack against the Samaritans now? Samaritans are the enemy?

Christ.

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I'd go and talk to a man who looked like he needed help if it was somewhere public like that.

Men aren't the enemy, I don't live my life in fear. And yes - I have reason to be fearful. I have been assaulted in the past. I'd still go and talk to a man if I thought he was going to end his life. I'm not letting the man that hurt me, take away my humanity and compassion too.

But I probably would have to talk myself into it. That's all the woman in the advert is doing, isn't she?

TBF the full ad shows him and the woman making eye contact and him nodding in an 'I've got you' way.
I still tend to think we should be encouraged to point out people we're concerned about to staff, rather than approach them, though.

And what are the men doing about it, that's what I want to know.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

'women as a group more frequently attempted suicide rather than actually committing it, whereas men were more likely to complete suicides and choose more violent suicide methods; thus, women are the “attempters” and “survivors” of suicide attempts.'

I believe women make more suicide attempts. Men's attempts are more deadly because of the methods used.

i haven't read the whole thread, so don't know of Samaritans have replied to all the controversy.

They have just added a tweet to their main tweet announcing the ad saying "obviously, don't put yourself in danger" (paraphrasing)

But they don't do they? Thats why there are more male suicides than female

I would definitely go over to a man if i thought may he suicidal (i actually have ) im failing to see why this is sexist or dangerous in anyway. Unless you see your life through a window of fear then surely everything you do or say could get you into trouble

Hey, how's he to know that she's not looking for lurve and that intervention by him would be considered stopping romance?

@ArabellaScott 🙄

I dislike this ad for all the reasons given by many, especially @NoLightNoLight

That said, I did approach a man sitting crying on the floor of a very crowded platform last year. It took me three hours to get home that day. I simply offered him a tissue and he said he'd come off a long shift and the complete mess of the Tube that day had been the last straw.

I think there's a huge difference between approaching someone through instinct, and feeling that you "should". Maybe on a different day, I wouldn't have felt able to.

And there were three staff members nearby to manage the crowds.

But in all my horrible years of commuting, I've seen tears, I've been the one in tears. People often offer help.

But asking someone who looks sad ...maybe nothing's wrong.

Also encouraging women to ask men....HELL NO.

i haven't read the whole thread, so don't know of Samaritans have replied to all the controversy.

this type of thing makes me want to keep out of society....without being pushed by all the strangeness out there, I am a friendly person but this actually outs me off.

I also think it will encourage men to approach women for no reason and jeez, we have enough problems without that.

Woman's job to do the soothing and nice chat. His job to stand about and look important.

Ace statisticking, @AmaryllisNightAndDay . Thanks.

Also, the overwhelming preponderance of certain suicide methods seems to suggest that not many suicides take place somewhere public. I think the figures for jumping were about 3-5% of suicides. So that also changes the balance of harms versus benefits of an interaction.

In the final frame you see a man in an orange tabard (alluding to be station sraff).but he just stands there whilst the woman asks him where she can get a coffee. So what's he doing? Just watching? Why isn't he asking the woman what's going on?

An interesting misuse of scale - 6 men sounds huge compared to 0.096% of women.

Well, there are about 34 million women in the UK. 0.096% is about 0.1% and 0.1% of 34 million is 34 000 women who are attacked by strangers (according to your figures which I haven't checked)

Or, if you prefer, there are 16 suicides (men only, Samaritans figures from ONS for England 2022 ) per 100 000 people, which is 0.016%, which is more than 5x smaller than the 0.096% of women who are attacked.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Thank you @NoLightNoLight thst was really helpful & enlightening

Thank you for this post @NoLightNoLight

What a lovely post, @NoLightNoLight. If I am ever feeling glum enough to need that kind of help, I hope I am at your station

Repeating BMJ paper about previous Samaritan campaign on similar theme.

This is the first empirical study to examine the role of passing strangers in preventing suicides in public places. It shows that no specialist skills are needed. Interveners were ordinary people, distinguished only by a high level of social awareness, combined with a readiness for social action. The findings also suggest that people do not need a script and should not be afraid of saying ‘the wrong thing.’ What interveners said was much less important than how they made the suicidal person feel, namely safe, connected and validated (‘I matter’). Interveners did this simply by being themselves, responding with authenticity, calmness and compassion. Members of the public need to be encouraged to recognise and reach out to those who may be at risk of suicide in public locations, but should be prepared for a prolonged and intense encounter that may leave them with troubling emotions.

Owens C, Derges J, Abraham C Intervening to prevent a suicide in a public place: a qualitative study of effective interventions by lay people BMJ Open 2019;9:e032319. doi: 10.1136/bmjopen-2019-032319

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/9/11/e032319.full.pdf

It's helpful to read through the various scenarios and experiences the authors discuss.

In 2018, Network Rail in partnership with Samaritans launched a campaign entitled ‘Small Talk Saves Lives’, encouraging rail travellers simply to say ‘Hello’ and strike up a normal conversation if they are concerned about someone.28 Our data confirm that this campaign message is entirely appropriate as far as the initial approach to a vulnerable person is concerned. However, it fails to recognise the intense, prolonged and taxing nature of intervention, the complex juggling acts that interveners may have to perform in the course of trying to keep someone safe, and the troubling emotions they may be left with. It is no small thing to save a life. The conundrum for public education is how to prepare people adequately for the challenges they may face without deterring them from intervening.

It's striking that 6 years later, the public education and awareness of what's involved is still absent from the campaign.

Brilliant post, NoLightNoLight, thank you for that insight.

That's the number of murders, though, paterpower. Not the number of attacks. I don't imagine that the fear of murder is at the core of women's uncertaintly about approaching a strange man. It would be the fear of a whole load of lesser forms of harm.

Totally agree with you! I was trying to dig around the ONS stat that a PP upthread was trying to use to make the fear of approaching a man seem like it’s just silly to think a woman would be in any danger at all.

She quoted a percentage stat which other posters questioned, so I was bored enough to see if I could pin down what the figure represented :-)