Sexist and dangerous Samaritans ad

You would think training staff to notice distressed individuals would be of more use. They could be much more attuned to unusual activity by passengers.

It’s not about my perception of who is dangerous or not, though it would be nice to be allowed to have one.

Ira about the expectation to be able to prevent a suicide and all the burden that comes with it.

The world must be a very scary place to people who imagine that every unknown man they encounter is dangerous.

I think most women know that sadly that is the default for keeping yourself safe.

Well yes because this is just an actor. You’ve said he’s full of rage because he’s been dumped. That’s projection in this case.

Depressed people are not necessarily “disturbed” as you put it. So you think suicidal men don’t deserve support because some men are predators? You are not giving women much credit here by suggesting they can’t judge situations for themselves. If someone jumped in front of you I bet you’d wish you would’ve said or done something

Of course women understand their own lives experience, but you can’t always put your own personal experience onto every other situation. Maybe the female poster’s experience of a man looking like that was because he was furious his girlfriend had broken up with him, but that doesn’t mean it’s true that every man who looks at all upset is furious with an ex. Men are human and experience the full range of emotions that women do, a man can be upset about something other than a break up and experience emotions deeper than just blind rage.

Are you telling women that they don't understand their own lived experience?

I was in a cafe & saw a lone bloke who looked very distressed. He was rocking and muttering.

I went over to the counter, asked for the first aider & pointed him out.

I’d do that wherever possible rather than get involved directly.

That paper was published in 2019 and also discusses a previous campaign so is before the 2024 advert so it doesn't say anything about it.

I included it because it's worth reading for the evidence and discussion to flesh out the final line in the abstract I quoted.

Our findings show clearly that anyone who wants to intervene can safely do so. Last-minute intervention requires no specific learning and can be highly effective when spontaneous and unscripted. In 2018, Network Rail in partnership with Samaritans launched a campaign entitled ‘Small Talk Saves Lives’, encouraging rail travellers simply to say ‘Hello’ and strike up a normal conversation if they are concerned about someone.28 Our data confirm that this campaign message is entirely appropriate as far as the initial approach to a vulnerable person is concerned. However, it fails to recognise the intense, prolonged and taxing nature of intervention, the complex juggling acts that interveners may have to perform in the course of trying to keep someone safe, and the troubling emotions they may be left with. It is no small thing to save a life. The conundrum for public education is how to prepare people adequately for the challenges they may face without deterring them from intervening.

I'd think it might be worth reading and considering by people interested in the topic. That's separate to the current advert.

Molko's experience is a scenario that is very similar to the discussions in that paper.

It was enough to reset my frame of mind a bit and I didn’t end up doing it, it obviously didn’t solve anything long term but in that moment where my thinking was unclear it brought me back to reality enough that I was able to get myself safely home.

furryfrontbottom · Today 11:34
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I would not be going anywhere near that man, whether or not there was a train track nearby. He exudes the sullen rage of a man who has just been kicked out by his girlfriend.”

Thats one hell of an assumption from a quick glance. Alternatively, he’s exuding extreme worry about a sick partner/relative or how the hell he’s going to pay the bills.

A few people on here need to watch an old broadsheet ad. A young skinhead in roll up jeans, steel toe caps and donkey jacket launching himself at an innocent passer by and throwing them to the ground.
seeing it from behind the young man, he was throwing said passer by out of the way of a falling palette of bricks from scaffolding above.

The world must be a very scary place to people who imagine that every unknown man they encounter is dangerous.

Maybe the advert could have used a woman approaching a woman or a man approaching a man but I do think more is being read into than the advert is trying to portray. I have been at a train station seriously contemplating throwing myself in front of a train, a woman approached me and asked if I was okay and spoke to me for around 5 minutes. It was enough to reset my frame of mind a bit and I didn’t end up doing it, it obviously didn’t solve anything long term but in that moment where my thinking was unclear it brought me back to reality enough that I was able to get myself safely home. I must have looked fairly unapproachable in that moment (crying, acting strange, my level of self-care at that point in my life was bad so hair unbrushed, uncoordinated clothing etc) and I’m glad that didn’t put the woman off from checking I was okay, I know as a woman I was likely seen as lower risk but the reality is suicide rates are highest among middle aged men so a campaign where only women are approached possibly wouldn’t be as helpful in terms of reaching those most likely to be in crisis.

The only wrong thing about this advert is that you wouldn’t ask for the whereabouts of a coffee on a platform. “Is the next train the London train?” Would be less weird.

There are many disturbing threads about Samaritans and the misuse and abuse of women volunteers on FWR.

I must admit the recent news that Scarlett Blake volunteered for them along with other notoriously dangerous people has given me greater pause for thought about their recruitment policies and due diligence.

That's all well and good but why did the intervener have to be a woman, and why was the resistant half frumpy and the motivated half wearing makeup? Why did the conversation have to be about coffee?

I think the message itself is good, that having a chat can make a big difference to someone's day.......it's something I try to do myself.

But rightly or wrongly I wouldn't approach a man who looked disturbed alone.....or a woman for that matter. I'd ring for help or notify someone else. But I wouldn't put myself at potential risk.

I’ve just stopped volunteering as a listener with Samaritans. It’s an organisation with some fundamental problems in my view.

This is the first empirical study to examine the role of passing strangers in preventing suicides in public places. It shows that no specialist skills are needed. Interveners were ordinary people, distinguished only by a high level of social awareness, combined with a readiness for social action. The findings also suggest that people do not need a script and should not be afraid of saying ‘the wrong thing.’ What interveners said was much less important than how they made the suicidal person feel, namely safe, connected and validated (‘I matter’). Interveners did this simply by being themselves, responding with authenticity, calmness and compassion. Members of the public need to be encouraged to recognise and reach out to those who may be at risk of suicide in public locations, but should be prepared for a prolonged and intense encounter that may leave them with troubling emotions.

Owens C, Derges J, Abraham C Intervening to prevent a suicide in a public place: a qualitative study of effective interventions by lay peopleBMJ Open 2019;9:e032319. doi: 10.1136/bmjopen-2019-032319

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/9/11/e032319.full.pdf

The Samaritans don't GAF about the welfare of women. If they did, they wouldn't force their female volunteers to act as wank fodder for perverts.

It’s not an advert directed AT women.

its not telling us to do anything.

its similar to ads we have in London that give advice to people when they see women being harassed.

Exactly! If I saw someone stood on a platform sad/crying I'd think they probably just said goodbye to some they wouldn't get to see for a while - not that they were about to throw themselves under a train. The whole advert is very strange and I completely agree with it not being the job of the woman to try to 'save' the completely unknown random man who might not want or need any kind of help or assistance at all. I also agree with the hair done and make up difference between the 'good' and 'bad' version.

encouraging lone women to approach disturbed men on deserted train station platforms and ask them out for a coffee

I must have missed the bit where she did that...

Very badly thought out ad. It's a shame because the message itself is a good one. Women regularly face sexual harassment or general harassment by men on public transport. I have myself. I wouldn't go up to a strange man on my own. Let's be honest, there's not often staff at train stations these days.

I don't think it's about Samaritans needing to run campaigns on other issues @BadSkiingMum it's about them doing a risk assessment on the campaign they're running.

I can see why my suggestion that they integrate this with the existing 'see it, say it, sorted' message wouldn't appeal to them, as they want to spend their own money putting their own badge on their own campaign.

That may be a wasteful choice but that's a different issue from choosing to advocate risky behaviour.

FGS stop trying to make something out of nothing.