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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
LilyBartsHatShop · 23/02/2024 05:03

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 16:47

McCloud, an Oxford University graduate, said the rise of the “gender critical” movement — which holds to what she acknowledges is the “uncontroversial notion” that a person cannot alter their biological sex — has also meant that she can be referred to as a man, despite being legally female.

She argues that as a result, “it has been open season on me and others”. The judge, who will formally stand down in April, added that she feels that “the dignity of the court as well as personal dignity is at stake”.

Referring to men as men is reality-based and law should be based in reality.

It's an interesting possibility, though, isn't it. Now that it is (socially? legally?) acceptable to make one's awareness of the sex of masters with a transgender identity obvious in the way that one refers to them, does it infact threaten the dignity of the court / the role of master of the court?
As soon as one child says, "he's naked" the king's dignity is utterly compromised, and reverence for the role of king, and the entire heirarchy, too.

lostwithoutpronouns · 22/02/2024 23:18

Some spiral to worse outcomes than boorishness

JanesLittleGirl · 22/02/2024 22:39

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 21:32

Interesting background Penguin - similar to the Izzard journey from subversive, funny cross-dressing bloke to self-indulgent bore?

Is this the endpoint for all these people? They simply become irrelevant bores?

nothingcomestonothing · 22/02/2024 21:47

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 16:38

So much victimhood in that article! Comparing your 'choice' of toilet to Rosa Parks FFS!

"In the letter, McCloud refers to Rosa Parks, the black US civil liberties campaigner. “Rosa Parks’ choice of seat was political because of the colour of her skin,” McCloud said, adding: “More prosaically, for me I am now political every time I choose where to pee. Less prosaically, the judiciary by continuing to let me be a judge is now at risk of being political.”"

Well lucky Judge M, having a choice of where to pee. Since Judge M having that choice means that Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women, amongst others, had nowhere to pee at all. Much inclusive.

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 21:32

Interesting background Penguin - similar to the Izzard journey from subversive, funny cross-dressing bloke to self-indulgent bore?

lostwithoutpronouns · 22/02/2024 21:22

That's interesting. It really does rot brains, this nonsense.

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 22/02/2024 21:09

VM is a genuinely good judge. Really very good. Just blinded by gender woo in the last few years. I remember seeing their new email footer probably 3, 4 years ago- several lines long and all about pronouns,.and just thinking, eh? Then the clothes started getting more "interesting" (skin tight green mini dresses) and the hair was half blue, and then the online stuff started, and then they (allegedly) agitated.for the name change for Masters to Judges (which again allegedly went down like a bucket of cold sick with the other Masters), and here we are.
It genuinely is a shame.

IcakethereforeIam · 22/02/2024 20:43

The good judge doesn't seem to have been a very good judge. I wonder if, in a desire to be diverse and inclusive, the good judge may have been overpromoted? I hope not, that would have been rather cruel.

AlwaysGinPlease · 22/02/2024 20:42

The trash literally took itself out

LassoOfTruth · 22/02/2024 20:04

People who cannot separate their own personal agendas or feelings from their professional responsibilities should not hold positions of power and influence like this. Especially anyone believing this batshit gender woo.

BackCats · 22/02/2024 19:09

popebishop · 22/02/2024 19:00

has also meant that she can be referred to as a man, despite being legally female.

Good God, all the language around this is so mangled.
Many people are legally female and think it's fine - even desirable - that they're referred to as a man. Is this now wrong? Does being "female" have anything to do with gender, or being a woman? Why are sex and gender conflated all the time?

Yes. Also, I would have thought that the judge would understand the GRA and the EA well enough that they would know that a GRC doesn’t change how a person may be referred to.

GRCs don’t mean compelled speech do they?

popebishop · 22/02/2024 19:00

has also meant that she can be referred to as a man, despite being legally female.

Good God, all the language around this is so mangled.
Many people are legally female and think it's fine - even desirable - that they're referred to as a man. Is this now wrong? Does being "female" have anything to do with gender, or being a woman? Why are sex and gender conflated all the time?

lostwithoutpronouns · 22/02/2024 18:41

I wondered what the ex-judge had been caught doing to trigger a resignation. But perhaps social media rants that demonstrate a lack of objectivity and - good grief what is that garbage - of the clarity of thought expected in the high court is a sufficient explanation.

happydappy2 · 22/02/2024 18:30

the comments under The Times article are very good!

OP posts:
Rightsraptor · 22/02/2024 18:24

I believe Judge Tan Ikram may also be under investigation for political bias on the bench.

Ikram was the Judge in the Alan 'Sarah Jane' Baker case, when the latter basically got away with telling people to punch terfs in the fucking face. On the other hand, Ikram has jailed police officers for 'offensive' comments made in private WhatsApp groups. He's clearly not possessed of much of a sense of judgement.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/02/2024 17:53

The first highly rated comment on the hastily closed comments in the Times was very clear about the issue of inappropriate personal influence:
"Victoria has already been politicising the judiciary, having been on the committee that updated the Equal Treatment Bench Book. This is the document which leads courts to refer to people by their pronoun of choice, and is why rape victims are being asked to refer to their rapists in court as she. It leads to newspapers, when they report such cases, also using preferred pronouns, rendering many newspaper articles indecipherable. Victoria should never have tried to be both a trans rights activist and a judge, and this decision is welcome".

SinnerBoy · 22/02/2024 17:26

I don't think that they believe any of that, they just push it because they are trans and want to have their own way. They must surely know and understand the law, perhaps this deliberate mis-framing of it has helped the Powers That Be to give them the heave-ho?

(Replying to:
Whatsnewpussyhat · Today 17:19
The judge thinks 'gender identity' is a biological characteristic and not a belief? Also seems not to understand that women have the protected characteristic of sex so why should those with a belief in gender identity manifest their beliefs to the detriment of women. )

ScrollingLeaves · 22/02/2024 17:25

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 16:47

McCloud, an Oxford University graduate, said the rise of the “gender critical” movement — which holds to what she acknowledges is the “uncontroversial notion” that a person cannot alter their biological sex — has also meant that she can be referred to as a man, despite being legally female.

She argues that as a result, “it has been open season on me and others”. The judge, who will formally stand down in April, added that she feels that “the dignity of the court as well as personal dignity is at stake”.

Referring to men as men is reality-based and law should be based in reality.

Yes.

The judge should be able to dress as he likes and so on while still being a man.

There should be no inherently illegal, lying law.

anyolddinosaur · 22/02/2024 17:24

Times really should have said they did politicise the judiciary.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2024 17:23

Fenlandia · 22/02/2024 16:47

McCloud, an Oxford University graduate, said the rise of the “gender critical” movement — which holds to what she acknowledges is the “uncontroversial notion” that a person cannot alter their biological sex — has also meant that she can be referred to as a man, despite being legally female.

She argues that as a result, “it has been open season on me and others”. The judge, who will formally stand down in April, added that she feels that “the dignity of the court as well as personal dignity is at stake”.

Referring to men as men is reality-based and law should be based in reality.

Well shit. This judge is complaining because women reject the offensive fucking notion that a male person is a woman and they can no longer demand acquiescence from women?

Sod the fuck off.

Let them speak is still working well then.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 22/02/2024 17:19

spannasaurus · 22/02/2024 17:03

Anya Palmer has posted this on x and says she would be very surprised if this were not the real reason for the resignation
"This post clearly breaches two parts of the guidance (1) not to identify your judicial post on any social media account to which the general public has access, and (2) not to use such an account to engage in debate on matters of political controversy."

The judge thinks 'gender identity' is a biological characteristic and not a belief?

Also seems not to understand that women have the protected characteristic of sex so why should those with a belief in gender identity manifest their beliefs to the detriment of women.

Soontobe60 · 22/02/2024 17:10

PronounssheRa · 22/02/2024 17:05

Mccloud was one of the Claimant’s if I recall correctly

The McCloud judgement refers to the Court of Appeal’s ruling that Government’s 2015 public sector pension reforms unlawfully treated existing public sectors differently based upon members’ age on the 1 April 2012.
The judgement came after two Employment Tribunals concerning the pensions of Judges’ (McCloud) and Firefighters’ (Sargeant) respectively.

spannasaurus · 22/02/2024 17:07

https://x.com/anyabike/status/1760701024048685198?s=20

Link to the tweet referenced in my previous post

https://x.com/anyabike/status/1760701024048685198?s=20

PronounssheRa · 22/02/2024 17:05

PermanentTemporary · 22/02/2024 16:44

I think this is the judge of the McCloud judgment which has potentially given a lot of NHS workers a better pension. So I'm grateful for that.

Mccloud was one of the Claimant’s if I recall correctly

PriOn1 · 22/02/2024 17:04

I wonder whether there is something in the pipeline that has triggered this.

The accusations of transphobia are typical, but I’m cynical when people resign when there’s no obvious reason for it and no obvious changes triggering their claimed reason for resigning.

Ah! Cross post with @spannasaurus . And there it is!