Menopause legislation - helpful or not?

This is a genuine question - do you think there was anything that could/should have been done for your friend that wouldn't be there for someone suffering from non-menopausal clinical anxiety? Like others I'm struggling to understand the advantage of the focus on the cause over the symptom here.

I'm not sure.

I absolutely think that menopause is a workplace issue and that lots of women are managed out or just fired around the menopause. Something needs to be done to give women more protection at work.

But I also worry that this will just feed into existing discriminatory attitudes where employers avoid recruiting/promoting women.

I'm also unsure about workplace menopause policies. I've got one where I work but it doesn't really give us anything tangible like time off. Also, I cannot imagine talking to my boss or my colleagues about my peri symptoms. I'd be mortified.

Here’s the research the 10% came from:
https://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/Handlers/Download.ashx?IDMF=9672cf45-5f13-4b69-8882-1e5e643ac8a6

Here’s another link to an article about research on women in the nhs and the menopause:
https://www.balance-menopause.com/news/healthcare-staff-struggling-with-menopause-symptoms-are-considering-quitting-newson-health-survey-finds/

With regard to pathologising normal conditions, I agree with Warrior. Lots of gynaecological issues are being treated as normal when they should be pathologised. It took me years of haggling with my gp before being referred to a consultant for my menopause issues, which were then resolved almost immediately and almost perfectly. Not all issues can be resolved as simply as mine, but the notion that women should just put up with things, or quietly leave the workforce, isn’t acceptable. My doctor was dreadful, dismissive and actively dangerous in both her prescriptions and lack of them.

"I think I'd prefer an approach where menopause was covered by sex/disability protections"

It is covered, it always has been, any long term or debilitating condition could be considered a disability in employment law requiring reasonable adjustments.

And it's covered under sex discrimination laws - if a male has a condition affecting his work and he's afforded adjustments, and a female in the same workplace going through the menopause also having her work affected is not afforded adjustments, then that would be sex discrimination too.

The media referring to the latest EHRC guidance as menopause legislation is not helpful at all, never mind being completely incorrect.

I find this so complicated.
I'm peri and yes, it's affected my performance at work. I get menstrual migraines that last 2 days. And I get bad brain fog and general disorganisation.

The problem is if you get a bad boss they can easily use your menopausal symptoms as an indicator of "underperformance". So some protection is necessary.

Conversely my issues mean I'm not performing to my best all the time and in a senior role, that's not always tolerable. How do you make it acceptable for some people to forget stuff, but not others?

I also agree with this view its just another way to make women look flaky and unreliable.

I think I'd prefer an approach where menopause was covered by sex/disability protections. I did read a while back that middle aged women were considered the demographic that would decide the next election so I wonder if this is a (patronising) attempt at a vote winner by assuming what women will vote on?

Basically there needs to be a very radical change in research on/ for women and health care across all ages.

All types of female healthcare, mostly gyne related.

If you think about it it's actually quite victim blamey to be saying women need meno to be seen as a disability when it really shouldn't be that disabling.

GPs and oc health can certainly provide supportive adjustments or even sick leave whilst a woman is attempting to get on top of her health. But it shouldn't be something that lasts too long or the healthcare system is failing women.

Women have had to work really hard over the last few decades to be considered equally as capable in the workplace, this is going against everything we have worked for.

I am concerned this will be yet another reason for employers to not want to hire women of any age...

There is already enough age discrimination when you get to 40 not to add to the idea that older workers can only be a burden.

I would find this really intrusive as I had to have a hysterectomy due to Adenomyosis when I was still young-ish so have not had period for ages and I certainly don't want to discuss this with work.

I think there should be a focus on supporting home and flexible working (part-time, job share...) more widely for employees in general when their job can be done remotely. At least there would be less stigma for specific group of people.

I think it’s just going to allow ‘are you having a hot flush?’ to be the new ‘are you on your period?’ type dismissive comment if older women disagree with or get angry about male bullshit.

I do too.

Its not helpful to get into what's worse. All those things are specific to the individual. Especially as I know my mother having psychosis triggered by menopause was worse for her than her MCs before I came along, and it's certainly the same for my friend who tried to take her own life recently.

I'm currently peri, well, 99% sure I am. If the way I feel at times is magnified in coming years i can confidently say it will be a lot worse mentally and emotionally than my MCs.

When is the attention going to be put on handling fertility issues and miscarriage at work. Not everyone experiences it but for those who do, work can be horrific. It’s far more traumatic and emotional

But 90% of women don't want, need or in my case welcome any action around menopause, so it should be handled directly by GP and HR for the unlucky people really suffering surely? Not highlighting and virtue signalling for the women who aren't having menopause related issues but are the right age.

The disability aspect - there are a lot of women who are dealing with menopausal symptoms due to anti cancer treatments and chemo. Which is classed as a disability. But you'd be protected under cancer diagnosis as the disability.

Similarly a lot of chronic conditions are classed as disabilities under law eg hypothyroidism. However, that might be because it's chronic. Without medication most with hypothyroidism would eventually die. And can fluctuate. Particularly during menopause.

I suppose it makes sense to find a way to protect against discrimination due to menopause. Oc health should make reasonable adjustments.

What I'm against is the idea that you just whack on a patch / gel and think that fixes it rather than looking at what the workplace can do. Also, a lot of women can't take hrt or it just doesn't work.

I have a friend who was a ceo and very high up in her profession. She developed extreme anxiety as peri symptoms became unmanageable. Started hrt. Assumed that was that. Symptoms went away but she then had a full mental health breakdown and had to resign. Is currently putting herself back together and looking at next steps but half her issue, she acknowledges, was the actual demands of the job.

I think the conversation needs to be bigger than menopause. And I think the nhs needs to get its act together on helping women with their health in really radical ways.

I'm off hrt now and now know what I needed to do to manage. Some of that was taking some time off which wasn't something I had a choice about but in retrospect was the most helpful thing from a menopausal pov.

This isn't legislation and it isn't new

Conditions that are a disability for the purposes of the Equality Act are already provided for in law as reasonable adjustments. Same as always.

This is just another opportunity for companies to score virtue signalling points by creating special little menopause rooms and putting the pictures of it on linked in 🙄

It’s all very well saying that you don’t want your employer to think that your productivity is going to drop around the menopause, but where does that leave those of us whose productivity does drop around the menopause?

Isn’t that what reasonable adjustments are for, to enable you to maintain an agreed level of productivity? It sounds like your current employer has the imagination to do that and thus gain an experienced employee.

Was my first thought. I had to drop down even more than my already dropped part time to cope.

It's mostly women in teaching and drastic changes to workplace stress and work load needs to be made. Thankfully my workplace already does this but I know many schools where it doesn't.

And as in a lot of teaching it's often the men who work their way up quickly to the top positions in academies (not always but very common) and then dictate the status quo.

That's nothing to do with menopause. That's him being a poor manager and a nasty person.

But where does the figure of 10% come from?

No, it isn’t the norm. It’s the experience of 10 % of women. That’s not the norm, but it’s sizeable enough to require action.

As someone who really dislikes the making of what is normal a pathology, I'm really glad about these comments.
I sympathise with those who have a bad experience, but that isn't the norm, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Whilst accommodations for heavy periods could be made at any age, I certainly did not have periods that were three weeks long and required the use of an entire pack of super plus tampax in addition to an entire pack of pads in a single day. My ferritin levels did not drop to 4 at any other point in my life. This would be vanishingly rare for most women outside of the perimenopause.

It’s easy to see the menopause as a natural part of aging, but as one of the one in ten women who left their job because of it, think some kind of protection for women is needed. People here say they don’t want to think their career will be placed on a scrap heap because of the menopause - this is exactly what is happening to some of us already. Having worked for my employer for thirteen years, the moment my productivity dropped an inch, I was placed under massive pressure. Due to budget constraints, there is already impetus from schools to replace upper pay scale teachers with cheaper freshly qualified staff. It’s extremely easy and common for staff to be managed out.

It’s all very well saying that you don’t want your employer to think that your productivity is going to drop around the menopause, but where does that leave those of us whose productivity does drop around the menopause?

I went through the menopause at 42. Overnight I had terrible joint pains,hot flushes, and my memory vanished. Couldn't even remember to feed the animals. Because of my age, until I was 50, it was Prempac C, which caused really heavy bleeding.Was on HRT for 17 years,then moved. New gp wouldn't prescribe. Hot flushes were the worst thing then..I was night nursing in a busy hospital ward. Plastic gloves, apron, synthetic uniform. I used to drip with sweat, scrubs would have been nice, but we weren't allowed to wear them on the wards..I still don't view menopause as a disability. A lot of small firms wouldn't be able to afford these changes.

I heard this on the radio yesterday and instantly took against the idea as I felt it was infantilising, patronising and counterproductive for women. I thought I'd be in a minority though and that perhaps I felt that way because I was fortunate enough to have sailed through the menopause. Really interesting to see all the comments.

I agree with this. Expecting women who are struggling to soldier on in silence is rightly no longer tolerated, but as a mid-40s woman the barrage of messages about the menopause really makes me feel like I’m about to be hurled off a precipice. Life as I know it will end, I’ll no longer feel or look like myself and I’ll be assailed by myriad symptoms before emerging just in time for old age.

It’s only by looking around and seeing older women who look healthy and happy that I don’t feel utterly despondent about all this.