Do you count GC feminists as LGBT?

It's not bravery it's rage and misogyny.

Oh come on, @AdamRyan , KB's been in contact with LGB Alliance, Gay Men's Network and vocally supported Kathleen Stock of The Lesbian Project.

Just because she's sceptical of Ben Bradshaw's personal favourite blarneyspinners - Mermaids and Stonewall - doesn't mean his accusations have merit.

Ugh.

What the bloody hell is wrong with Whittle? That comment is really quite a revolting mix of archness and rank homophobia.

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth.

As the walls close in, their tactics get more desperate, and more transparent as a result.

Trying to make sure that lesbians don't exist, and then complaining that they're not being consulted is so blatant, it's risible.

Obviously, the only lesbians she should be consulting are those with penises.

That Whittle comment really displays the inbuilt homophobia in trans ideology that presumably drives the determination to "trans the gay away" amongst children. Vile.

The SW comment I referred to was in Tathing’s
Today 12:09

Re: that disgusting S W comment about gay men not being able to resist a FTM furry cub - Gay Men’s Network has liaised with the CPS about ‘sex by stealth’ transmen.

Dennis and Clive’s podcast (The Queen’s Speech) often gives an overview of what’s been happening re: the clash of homosexual rights and trans rights, both here and abroad, and what various smaller Gay and Lesbian orgs are doing to push back against it. There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on re: various parliamentary meetings/events/committees/consultations etc.

Gay Men’s Network have even been meeting with Lloyd Russell Moyle (🙀) re: the conversion therapy bill in the commons. Amazingly they seem to have made some progress with him (alas this makes for a rather muddled draft bill).

I just had a very quick shifty at xitter for a relevant Dennis tweet and accidentally stumbled across this profoundly homophobic tweet from Stephen Whittle (of Press for Change, self described ‘Architect of the GRA’). Thank fuck for Bev Jackson of the LGB Alliance who isn’t afraid to point out how homophobic trans rights activism is.

This is all part of the Stonewall's mega tantrum at their ability to grift being eroded by the concept of safeguarding children being prioritised again. They're also are furious that other groups are being involved (especially those including lesbians) as until recently they've held the stage (and got all the ££)

I'm still a bit 😳at someone objecting to a small number of groups with a safeguarding / gender realist approach being involved in discussions with the government? Especially given the excessive influence Stonewall etc have had for over a decade on every aspect of society.

But then every day's a learning day on here.

That was relying to RedToothBrush Today 12:09

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth. (keep in mind the who idea of trying to pretend that those who advocate for sex based rights in line with the existing EA are demonised as Nazis etc).

Very true.
Also, in making FOI requests, as far as I have experienced with them, you have to be very specific about which dates you are referring too, and there is no sense that you can ask for as large a span of time as you want.

Would the FOI request in this instance have encompassed the full range of time of K B and her assistants’ engagement with all sorts of agencies on these issues over the last several years?

She has become very knowledgeable and that won’t have come about without a great deal of research.

Here’s Kemi supporting Kathleen Stock in The Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10149859/amp/Equalities-minister-Kemi-Badenoch-says-appalled-treatment-Kathleen-Stock.html

How can talk to the 'right kind' of lesbians, when lesbians have gone back in the closet due to being abused and harassed by TRAs? This is the 'invisibility issue' all over again. Just because something isn't visible doesn't mean it isn't happening.

There is a known and clear issue with the visibility of lesbians because its become acceptable to say that males can be lesbians and that lesbians must be willing to date dick because otherwise they are transphobic (and may feel they will lose their jobs and careers if they are open about gender critical feelings).

You also risk talking to 'lesbians' who are male or actually bi or heterosexual if you try to talk to LGB organisations because of the dominance of Stonewall and the culture of fear.

Women's groups represent single sex issues and centring single sex. So they also are guarenteed, if they do have lesbians amongst their ranks, to be the 'right kind' of lesbian. These are the women with probably THE most to loose from the removal of sex based rights because they get the double whammy of the loss of sex and their same sex attracted rights.

Badenoch actually has a certain amount of duty of care to those she speaks to, in the middle of a culture where there has been so many threats, harassment and court cases that have targetted gender critical women. There is a fear that is being expressed.

In asking for FOI what are you ACTUALLY doing? Checking up on Badenoch or adding to that environment of intimidation and this narrative of making sure interest groups are 'legitimate' in their worth. (keep in mind the who idea of trying to pretend that those who advocate for sex based rights in line with the existing EA are demonised as Nazis etc).

Honestly this one of the most disengenous threads Ive seen in a LONNNGGGG time.

And Julie on Kemi in The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/14/kemi-badenoch-must-terrify-the-trans-lobby/

Here’s Julie Bindel (of The Lesbian Project) on Kemi in The Sun:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25019605/julie-bindel-kemi-badenoch-trans-child-comments/amp/

I think the criticism is actually very weasle-y. Kemi seems to have engaged with multiple smaller, newer groups and charities for LGB rights (some in person, some in writing, some have met with others in the department, just not Kemi herself, and some orgs have engaged via fact finding projects).

Kemi’s predecessors inc Liz Truss engaged with the big names but after the Cass Review and the various tribunal cases/mass withdrawals from Stonewall’s equality index it would clearly be a massive waste of Women and Equalities department’s time to continue to liase with Stonewall/Mermaids/Tatchell et al.

Look at the screenshot Kemi’s critics are saying she hasn’t engaged with any of the leading/largest LGBT orgs, which may actually be true.

Doesn’t means Kemi’s only engaged with heterosexual GC women tho, just means that pink news etc don’t think smaller LGB orgs count as homosexual representation!

I don't think that. I don't think Badenoch should be using GC women as her main source about about gay peoples issues.

Here you go, Adam, now you have gay men's network backing her to the hilt.

"Kemi is right: trans ideology is a threat to gay kids

A lot changed yesterday. An area of politics that is too often dismissed as ‘toxic’, where many fear to tread, was dragged into the sunlight of open debate – something that trans activists have always feared. Gender ideology now stands exposed for what it is – as a threat to the rights of women and of gay people."

And according to this very TRA-sided article, Kemi met with LGBA all the way back in 2020:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/uk-equalities-minister-antitrans-group/

And again in 2022, when ‘ministers also met with Stonewall’

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/minister-met-lobbyists-ahead-of-conversion-therapy-u-turn/

and here’s a mention of The Lesbian Project (founded by Julie Bindel and Kathleen Stock) on Hansard:

https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/mp/kemi-badenoch/debate/2023-12-06/commons/commons-chamber/gender-recognition

Gay Men’s Network have been engaging with MPs and members of the HoL across all parties.

Here’s founder, Dennis Kavanagh on Kemi: https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/12/07/kemi-is-right-trans-ideology-is-a-threat-to-gay-kids/amp/

I never said they should. In fact I said they shouldn’t.

Honestly, it's the height of enough to complain she didn't engage LGB groups, when the whole fucking trans borg has gone out of its way to make sure there aren't any.

And if further proof were needed, we've got transactactivists on another thread saying that 'most lesbians are trans inclusive', and a lesbian only club will fail to thrive, because it will only be frequented by 'gender critical lesbians.'

If lesbians weren't targeted to become men, or date men, but were allowed to thrive, you'd be able to fall over them in the street. Instead of which, they've got to go underground, and then Kemi gets it in the neck for not being able to find any.

Bloody hell. It's not as though the LGB alliance isn't relentlessly targeted to be shut down every five seconds.

It is messy if you think about it.

LGBT now is generally defined to include gender non conforming people which would cover most feminists. Of course the thing is gender non conformists whether male or female generally in the past didn't announce their status they just observably broke gender norms in dress etc.