Why are separate spaces for trans people unacceptable (to trans people)?

Don’t tell me, tell PP who thinks she’s found a gotcha when she hasn’t.

Transwomen are a subsection of men, not women.

All adults need to abide by the social contract - the agreements that keeps society functioning because citizens follow the "rules".

Groups can't unilaterally change these because they don't like them. They need public consent and currently there isn't a majority consent for men who claim to be women in women's sport, changing rooms and showers, hospital wards, prison cells etc.

Change trans women to any other section of women.

And if by using your logic, they truly believe they are no different from biological women, how would you sign the seperate bathroom? Why would they know to enter it?

I've seen a couple going into the men's at previous gyms I've attended. I could tell they were defo female. Nobody really batted an eyelid.

Why would it be segregation if they were with other women when those women were transwomen?

Because if that were actually true, then that’s because they believe it to be segregation no?

😂
it's true isnt it!!

Transwomen also don't consider other transwomen to be women. If they did then being in a space with other transwomen would be fine as they are actual, proper women. Every transwoman is the only one that's really a woman and all the others aren't.

Third spaces, so that transwomen can avoid the gents, make women happy = bad

Transwomen in the ladies makes women unhappy = good

Unhappy women make penis happy and penis must always be happy

What Frood said

The trans men decide to put themselves at risk
That is their choice
The trans women decide to put biological women at risk and we have no say on it.

Men are a risk to women. It is why women's single sex spaces were created. It is not the case the other way around. Trans men don't attack and rape men. You can't compare the two scenarios

Well said, and it's even madder when you think not only are women being asked to discard their safety, dignity, access to public life and privacy but also that of their children.

Which is where the pushback starts, in many cases.

I'm betting, for example, that anyone who is a relative of or knows Katie Dolatowski's victims will be a terf / pro single sex spaces.

Not to mention asking women to put their care that a male person doesn't experience discrimination and shaming far above their own needs for privacy, dignity, basic access because some women simply can't use that space any more, and the risk of being used by a male for validation, evidenced sexual enjoyment, evidenced sexual harassment - this stuff is all over the internet with highly excited men one handedly sharing the pictures of them wanking in the women's loos, peeing with doors wide, rummaging the bins for tampons.... and that's apart from the women and girls who actually have been assaulted and raped by men who have TQ+ identities.

But women! Cast aside your needs! Selflessly and in a madly masochistic way, sacrifice your access, your privacy, your safety, your right not to be used by a male all sexually excited, and protect a male from being shamed by other men! Care not that you actually need access to a loo, care not that you're excluded from all facilities, care not that you might be harassed or assaulted because what does harm to you matter when a male person might be shamed!

Throw yourselves in front of them like the human shield mummies you are!

Mad. Absolutely mad.

In fact, the likelihood of either trans women or trans gents being victims of discrimination, shaming, and violence in a changing room or bathroom far outweighs the risk of a trans people having any interest in hurting anyone.

If this is a fact please show your proof. I hear a lot of people making the claim that people with special identities are victims of discrimination and violence in these spaces but when asked for the details it's all tumbleweeds.

*edit to say oh, lots of pp have pointed this out

In fact, the likelihood of either trans women or trans gents being victims of discrimination, shaming, and violence in a changing room or bathroom far outweighs the risk of a trans people having any interest in hurting anyone.

This is a completely unfounded assumption.

There, India looks how I'd imagine David Soul to look, if he were left by a radiator and melted a bit.

I wish India had stayed in longer so more people could have seen what was going on.

No I am not the world's mum, I do not exist to make transpeople's lives easier, I am an actual person with my own needs,wishes and rights.

Well said. And actually I am a Mum to two girls and their safety and human rights are more important to me than ANY Man. Safeguarding in schools is being undermined. So the men can fuck off, no matter how sad they are, until that is sorted.

nothingcomestonothing · Today 17:36

That's not true. There are documented instances of TW attacking and abusing women and children in women's single sex spaces - google Katie Dolatowski for instance.

Yes; and numerous posters on FWR generally have asked those stating that transw are in terrible danger in the gent's to provide facts and figures, but I haven't seen such a reply.

In fact, the likelihood of either trans women or trans gents being victims of discrimination, shaming, and violence in a changing room or bathroom far outweighs the risk of a trans people having any interest in hurting anyone

That's not true. There are documented instances of TW attacking and abusing women and children in women's single sex spaces - google Katie Dolatowski for instance. Women are, off the top of my head, nine times more likely to be assaulted in a mixed than a single sex space.There are no recorded instances of transpeople being harmed in changing rooms or toilets. None. At all.

I have a sneaking suspicion that being the maternal sex, we are perhaps more kindly disposed to anyone suffering in our society. Do other people feel that way?

Our female socialisation has been used against us, time and again in this fight. We have been shamed and berated, told to #bekind, while our rights, dignity, privacy are taken from us. No I am not the world's mum, I do not exist to make transpeople's lives easier, I am an actual person with my own needs,wishes and rights.

Cry bully is the perfect phrase. India might as well have just screamed 'Validate meeeee!' I would 100% experience India as an aggressive male in that situation and react accordingly. That would sincerely be my internal reaction, having sadly experienced male aggression throughout my life.

You remember when IW shouted 'I am a real woman' at a cornered woman in big brother? It's like that. What these people get out of it, I don't know but it's uncomfortable to watch, let alone experience. Cry bullies.

Yep. It's too scary to tackle bullying fathers (and trust me, I get it) but it's the deliberate lashing out at women that sickens me. It's nothing more than classic kick-the-cat displacement.

This is EXACTLY the thinking I encountered when I talked to a transwoman (friend of a friend who I’d know slightly, before he transitioned, when he was a gay teenager). He didn’t refer to bullying women (obviously!), but described how he had felt rejected by his father, then more broadly by other men. His view was that, because of that perceived rejection by male society, women were duty bound to accept him as a woman. 🙄

That's not what your post implied you were suggesting. It seemed to be very 'women need to budge up and be nice.'