JKR on men in women's jails

She's the TRA Kryptonite

It’s amazing to me that Butters has been posting on the internet since 1995 aged 12 arguing at the forefront of trans rights but only seems to ask questions lacking substance and get answers that are bleedin’ obvious. It’s almost as if it’s only Mumsnet that has ever offered any challenge to Butter’s world view in the last few years.

Why do they even bother? Her replies just make them look even more stupid. She really is an utter legend.

Queen for sure

As ever, an absolute Queen!

@ButterflyHatched asks how to identify prisoners who would harm other prisoners from those who would not.

Imagine a basket of ten snakes, Butterfly, and only one is poisonous. You can't tell which is which by just looking but It's really statistically fairly safe to plunge your hand into the basket, because the odds are against you getting bitten.

What's that you say? You don't think it's a good idea to plunge your hand into the basket? You're being very unreasonable.

Good question.

You are ALMOST there as to why women say no to all males in single sex spaces not just prisons.

No one can tell who the 'good ones' or the 'genuine ones' are. No one. That's the foundation stone of safeguarding - that you shouldn't just dismiss the risk because it's someone you know, like and trust. Everyone should be subject to rules which are pose the lowest risk profile to all, regardless of identity or socio-economic status.

This is also where accurate data collection matters to women.

If the data shows that males regardless of gender identity, pose a higher risk to women than women only, there's an issue. And that's exactly what the data - where biological sex not legal fictions is accurately recorded - shows.

Keep in mind the following:

The conviction rate for sex crimes is abysmal.

The number of cases the CPS put forward for trial is abysmal.

The number of women willing to put themselves through the trauma of a police investigation is tiny for good reason.

It's almost as if male pattern behaviour remains an issue to women after transition and this is the problem for women not just gender stereotypes based on appearance.

With this in mind, there is an issue for women here, which the prison figures, don't reveal the full scale of. Because statistics and reality are more relevant and important than this weird fantasy world which has been created by activists where all trans people are law abiding citizens who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Why do you think women are objecting to be being told they have to sacrifice their safety and their dignity to accommodate males in the spaces. Especially when the justification is about the safety of transwomen with absolutely no regards or thoughts to the safety and dignity of women?

Difficult question this one.

Have and use third spaces or transwomen deal with their own problems amongst themselves without making it a problem where women are the collateral damage and are harmed under the guise of 'protecting the most vulnerable in our society'.

This shouldn't be difficult to understand, but validation trumps everything and the implications to women are something that an merely a throwaway one line afterthought.

Yet again you are illustrating the point that your life experience and world view from a position that only a male can have (cos only males can be transwomen) is an issue. It's so self absorbed you don't see the risk that women see to themselves.

This isn't transphobia. This is a measureable risk that can be demonstrated with fairly robust evidence. It demonstrates that males will go to extreme lengths to gain access to vulnerable women if the system allows them to. But is framed as transphobia in an attempt to supress that data collection and evidence gathering and that is to the detriment of women only.

The only solution is to recognise there is a problem with any male in a female space and to act accordingly to prevent access regardless of identity and THEN to work out how you protect the more vulnerable males.

@ButterflyHatched @Boiledbeetle is right.

You cannot tell which men are rapists, peadophiles etc. so you need single sex spaces for females e.g. prisons, communal changing rooms.

You can't. The best you can do is put all the men in the men's estate. And all the women in the women's estate. And segregate and categorise within the two estates depending on crime committed and risk to other prisoners.

What you don't do is put a man in with the women.

Ever.

It's dead simple really.

How do you identify the prisoners that will harm prisoners from those that will not?

And let’s not forget those in the prison estate are only those who have been caught, convicted and sentenced to prison.

There are an awful lot more males out there (including those who identify as something other than men) who are violating women and girl’s boundaries, committing violent and sexual offences and are never caught or prosecuted.

Prisons is just one aspect of it and of course hugely important. But Steph’s argument that if they’re convicted male sex offenders then of course no one thinks they should be in women’s prisons spectacularly fails to consider the real harm done to women and girls everyday when male people enter female spaces.

And that’s before we even look at their documented plan (Denton’s was it?) to strategise to get male sex offenders in women’s prisons because they thought of society would accept TWAW there, they’d accept it anywhere.

The sheer calculating callousness of using vulnerable women as pawns for their own ends is despicable. I cannot express how disgusted I am by them.

We have male and female prisons.
Only males can be transwomen.
The end.

So well explained. Thank you JKR for writing this.

Being transgender is in no way an exemption from being male.

Just as being transgender is in no way an exemption from being female, in the context of why transmen never seem to be imprisoned in the male estate.

…..there is a subset of offenders who should not be housed with other women due to safety concerns.

Men being housed in the female estate are not other women. They are men.

No. You can't have it all ways.
Either transwomen are women or they're not. You can't suddenly decide that the numerous rapists, sex offenders, paedophiles, violent men aren't women cos it's embarrassing while every other man who claims to be a woman must be accepted and invited into women's single sex spaces.

Women and girls have neither the time nor the inclination to work out whether the naked man in the changing room is one of the dangerous men, a mentally unwell man, a flasher on the route to serial sex offending or just an entitled man who doesn't respect women, girls and our right to say no.

NO.

@ButterflyHatched
JKR is far more eloquent than I am but she is right If you accept one transwoman should not serve their sentence in a women’s prison how do you justify allowing any transwomen?

How do you identify the transwomen prisoners that will harm women prisoners from those that will not?

The entire edifice of transwomen in women’s prisons has already started to crumble with Isla Bryson, Barbie Kardashian, Karen White et al.

As is often the case, I find myself actually largely agreeing with the surface level point she's making here - there is a subset of offenders who should not be housed with other women due to safety concerns. Makes perfect practical sense. No disagreement.

This nonsense about an entire edifice crumbling down though? You can acknowledge that some humans do terrible things that make them a danger to others and also that being transgender is in no way an exemption from being human.

Well, yes.

I meant with her perseverance, her determination not to be silenced, her bravery, her ability to deflect direct attacks with innate charm, her intelligence and most of all her conviction in the fairness and rightness of her views.

Rosie Duffield is on the BBC now talking about MP's safety. She's wearing a dinosaur brooch😍

Just briefly with a few others. Something to do with the Gaza vote yesterday. She mentioned JKR and Joanna Cherry.

JKR has been on a roll the last few days. The TRAs must be absolutely stotting!

Getting strong vibes from your post :)

s

There is something intrinsically hilarious about the fact that every time India insists on her womanliness, her inner maleness (interrupting while women are talking, patronising women who are infinitely cleverer than India) somehow shines through even more.