Reason #1006 why women’s sport is different: Paris Olympics: Athlete’s plea to let baby stay in village is refused

Oh I know the IoC don't care about women, I'm not under any illusion about that. What they should do and what they are doing are sadly not the same! Hence this news article.

Is that aimed at me? I'm happy to respond if it is.

I didn't realise one of Emma Hayes' twins had died in utero. I had heard she was pregnant with twins and hadn't heard about her loss.
If you read my comment, I said:
Emma Hayes (Chelsea manager) took her twins in a push chair to training, but I hope we can all see that that was different - most of it in the open air, relatively stress free.
My objection was to the footballer who insisted her child - a baby - should go to away matches.

I also said I support an onsite creche rather than issuing day passes for kids - less stressful for all.

To believerinbiology

This is what started me off on that train of thought:

What kind of world do we live in that a woman not only has to fight for this but also even has people on this thread questioning whether a woman is right or not to breastfeed. I despair!

I didn't say she wasn't right to breastfeed or shouldn't be able to. I meant it was not a terrible imposition on her or damaging to the child if she doesn't - temporarily - whether out of choice or necessity. My instinct was correct about, though because you later cited guidelines recommending bf-ing up to age 2 "and beyond". The child is over 2. I can't see how not b-fing her or letting someone else bottle-feed her for a couple of weeks, will do her harm.

NHS guidelines say:
Breastfeeding older children
There's no reason why you should not continue breastfeeding your child into their 2nd year and beyond. You and your toddler can continue to enjoy the benefits of breastfeeding for as long as you want to.
Your toddler may also find breastfeeding comforting when they're ill or upset.

In other words, do it if you both enjoy it, but it's not essential for the child's wellbeing to do so.

NHS guidelines again (my bold):
Going back to work
If your breast milk supply is well established, going back to work does not have to affect your milk supply for your baby. You can either express at work, give your breast milk to your child's carer, or provide formula milk while you're away.

I suggested either of the last two options.

I agree that mothers (working outside the home or not) should be enabled and supported to breastfeed whenever possible and that providers of accommodation at sporting should take the needs of mothers into account.. My comments above relate to this specific case of a woman with a child who will be at least 2.5 when the Olympics begin.

theremustbecake
No, a woman should not have to choose between bf-ing and her athletic career. Staying in offsite accommodation during the Olympics is not giving up her career, is it?

I know bf-ing is about bonding, I said so. I'm only questioning whether a 2-3-year-old is only allowed to bond with its mother and not any other adult in its life.

‘Organisations that expect women to participate equally to men should have guidelines in place to accommodate requests like this.’

Yes they should.. but we know for sure that the IOC don’t expect women to participate equally to men. If they did expect this, then men would not be allowed to participate in women’s events.

For an organisation that thinks it is fair to allow men to participate in women’s events - there is no surprise they don’t cater for women’s needs. They don’t care. They are men and they don’t give a sht about female athletes. Scandalous.

This thread is about the non-availability of of suitable accommodation for a breast-feeding female athlete in the Olympic village. Several posters see this as an opportunity to lecture the mother. Is this FWR or have I accidentally slipped onto a DM comments section?

Emma Hayes has one son. His twin died in utero. She is a single parent and brings a nanny when they go away on training camps. One of her players has a child and does the same: www.chelseafc.com/en/news/article/melanie-leupolz-my-journey-continues

Man City's Demi Stokes is regularly pictured bringing her baby son to training. West Ham's Katrina Gorry brought her toddler to the official signing and brings her to most games. Lots of cute photos on the club's social media.

It's entirely possible to support mum athletes without it impacting the team.

Could you point out the posts you refer because I can't see them?

fedupandstuck

Well, we are talking at cross purposes. We both agree that there should be provision for mothers at large sporting events.

I asked if Clarisse would be a bad mother for choosing not to breastfeed her toddler overnight for a short period. Not being required to. I asked this because the tone of some posts (not just or even mainly yours, so apologies for directing that at you specifically) was that breastfeeding the child at night was essential for the child's welfare.

I hope that's clearer.

Your bad mother argument is a strawman argument btw

Why should a mother have to chose between breastfeeding her child (no matter the age) and her career? Some mothers breastfeed to 5 and beyond. Some mothers find it important for bonding. It shouldn't be your call to dictate when she and/or child stops.

Mothers should be accommodated. A happy mother makes a happy child. A happy child makes a happy future for all of us.

This is not the first competition that Clarisse has been outspoken about the needs of breast feeding mother's at. She had spoken about it time and again including when her baby was much younger...think was 9 months at the world's, and younger at previous competition s, so your argument about the age of her child/whose benefit it's for is irrelevant. Guidelines recommend breastfeeding at least to age 2 and beyond. A quick google will through up the names and stories of numerous athletes about the barriers the sports admin systems (not the sports themselves) create for breastfeeding mothers. Many of these athletes speak about how this impacted them when their infants were under 6 months. This should not be a barrier to women in sport.

I have no idea why you think I'm suggesting that this athlete would be a bad mother if she was required to stop breastfeeding sooner than she wanted to, or had to express for the duration. Literally not a single comment I have made implies that in any way. I don't know which part of my posts you've interpreted to imply that. I'd love to know, as it's genuinely puzzling.

Organisations that expect women to participate equally to men should have guidelines in place to accommodate requests like this.

EmotionalSupportViper
What's your point, genuinely? You made a choice. It's not the case that you had to breastfeed your two- or three-year-old children. We can assume that babies will be breastfed (by mothers who can, of course), but not necessarily toddlers. I find it hard to believe that any harm would come to a 2.5-3-year-old through managed weaning or being temporarily bottle-fed by another adult to whom it is close, while still seeing Mum during the day.

fedupandstuck
This thread is about a competitor at the 2024 Olympics, where the village has been built and there is nowhere suitable for this mother. They didn't think of mums when designing it, and they should have - I've agreed.
Women's pregnancy and maternity rights in sport are being developed, albeit slowly.
The sacrifice I referred to was Clarisse being out of the village.

I'm repeating some of what I said because it seems as if we are talking at cross purposes.

I didn't mention other mothers, I asked whether Clarisse herself would be a bad mother for not doing night-time feeds for any other reason (the example I gave being a short holiday). I don't think she would be, but everything you say implies that you think differently.

Only mothers do it. That's the point. It's not something that fathers ever do.

And it's got nothing to do with whether other mothers go on holiday or not.

As you said yourself, breastfeeding a 2-3-year-old is also something that mothers don't do.

I did it.

Twice.

It does matter for whose benefit it is. Clarisse says it's for her. I'm not implying she's being selfish. Even if it was for the little girl - let's say you're right and she can't go to sleep without the feed - at some stage Clarisse would have to start weaning the child completely.

We're not talking about a tiny baby here. The child eats solid food. This is about bonding. This summer could be a great opportunity to bond with its father, or granny or godmother or any other significant adult in her life. And crucially, Clarisse has time - it's not like the Olympics is next week or next month.
She has opted for offsite accommodation, hopefully paid for or subsidised by the IOC, as a good compromise. I do agree that a small number of single occupancy rooms should be planned for in the accommodation as well, but the providers will not be able to ensure an exact fit with all the potential users, so some mums will not be able to be accommodated in the athletes' village and younger children's mothers should take priority.

As you said yourself, breastfeeding a 2-3-year-old is also something that mothers don't do.

Would Clarisse be a terrible mother if she went away on holiday for a week or even a weekend without her toddler? Because that's where you're going with this.

Hadn't seen your post and have just made a similar comment.

That would be inclusive.

I can't read the article so can't comment on what she said. She may not have listed off the benefits for her child as she may assume they are universally known. This is not a "one off" or isolated incident. It is a known issue for women and their children that is simply deemed insignificant by the decision makers. Tokyo reversed it's decision not to accommodate nursing mothers but unfortunately it did so too late for some who either pulled out/made alternative arrangements/weaned earlier than they had wanted. More and more women are continuing their sporting careers after they give birth and they should be accommodated.

Wonder what the the response would have been to the request if it had been a "chest feeding" transwoman athlete who had asked . . .

I don't think it's relevant whether it's for the benefit of the mother or the child or both. It would just be ideal for once, if a woman doing something totally normal for a woman, could be simply and quickly accommodated. Doesn't matter if it's not a frequent request. And it's not parents that have to sacrifice, it's specifically only going to apply to women, clearly. And if that's a big deal, that would cause people to object, then I'd happily allow any man who is the primary caregiver of a baby or toddler, to be accommodated if they request it because for whatever reason they would find it difficult to be separated at night. I guess the take up on that might be zero though.

believerinbiology & fedupandstuck

Clarisse says it's great for her. Not her toddler, her own chances in the competition.

She can't be accommodated this time around, so she can either start getting her child used to not breastfeeding at night sometimes (she's got four or five months to ease the child in and try expressing, or stay offsite. If the organisers were saying she had to stay onsite and there were no single rooms for her to have her daughter with her, or there was no day nursery provision, I would be more sympathetic. She can't have everything. She wants the atmosphere of the village, understandably, but sometimes parents have to make sacrifices and this doesn't seem like a big one.

Would you castigate Clarisse if she'd gone on holiday for a week without her child? I wouldn't.

She'll be fine staying off site.
It's a pretty common choice for athletes to make anyway (lots prefer to stay with their partner/family - who are allowed in to visit in Olympic Villages but are not permitted to stay in them)

I don't know what the likely level of demand is for parent/baby rooms. If it's more than once-in-a-blue-moon, then there should be provision.

If she’s still feeding it’s the problem that she may get engorged which will be a problem with running. Some women don’t get on with pumps but I suppose she’s going to have to now.

What kind of world do we live in that a woman not only has to fight for this but also even has people on this thread questioning whether a woman is right or not to breastfeed. I despair!