"Human Milk" ffs

I don't know if I've worded myself too strongly and I'll fall foul of the mn police. I almost don't care. If I can't advocate for babies on mumsnet of all places, where the hell is there.

A full analysis of the lactate to see if it is the same as lactate from biological women

OK, I'll bite. I'll bite. You've already been shown on this thread that, for a start, the testosterone levels in male nipple discharge is orders of magnitude higher than in mothers' breastmilk, even mothers with particularly high levels compared to other women.

Then you said, but we'd need to do further research to see if that testosterone is harmless to the babies.

So which is it? Do we require the so called "lactate" [male nipple pus] to be identical or now we've proven that the male discharge is demonstrably very different, that might actually be ok after all, might it? How different does it have to be before we say, oh, that's not the same at all?

What other bodily fluids do we have to "prove" aren't equivalent to breastmilk? Saliva? Snot? Urine?

I've seen a photo of a TW expressing his nipples, when it was going around on twitter. He was expressing it into a gu pot or similar. That stuff was so viscous it was like cottage cheese, it formed a little mound in the pot. It did not resemble breastmilk in any way, it was closer in texture, from the look of it, to pimple pus. I'm not going to try and find the image, it made me feel nauseous at the time, but perhaps someone else can find it (but fgs put a sensitivity warning on the image).

Kucinghitam

Well, yes...

Except those who are so high on the fumes of their own Righteousness that they'd happily throw tiny infants into a bonfire of male sexual kicks.

Well, it certainly turns the stomachs of most people here.

Oh my god, the thought of a baby trustfully suckling on an offered 'breast' and getting a mouthful of male secretions, makes me feel sick. It should make EVERYONE feel sick, shouldn't it?

Chariothorses · Today 14:57

La scapigiata 's linked to her book case study on this
^https://lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body/^

From your link - I note that the person involved was also taking two kinds of sleeping tablets:

In addition to my concerns about high levels of testosterone in breast milk, this male patient is also reported to have used domperidone to stimulate galactorrhoea. Domperidone is banned in the US (FDA, 2004), and is only used off-label internationally to induce lactation in women. Domperidone is sometimes used to treat reflux but it has been discontinued for use in children under the age of 12, due to potential cardiac side-effects (MHRA, 2014). When domperidone is given off-licence to stimulate lactation, it requires ensuring that the mother and infant don’t have any contraindications to this treatment (Nottinghamshire Area Prescribing Committee, 2021).

A banned substance, to be used only in the most desperate circumstances.

Human milk is a common term in medicine, as distinct from formula and cows' milk. Doesn't have to be anything to do with transpeople.

Yes.

Yes

Yes

I am so disgusted.

I understand you completely on this point.

It beggars belief how prescriptive people are towards pregnant and breast feeding women - a glass of wine, a pian killer or even stress will do x y z to your baby. Bad woman. All members of society are emboldened to judge and intervene. Then this...

Of course the most devastating element is the baby. Absolutely abhorent that this type of experimentation is not only allowed but encouraged.

Babies really are the latest commodity. Being bought, sold, and now this.

Datun · Today 13:30

A newborn baby glugging down copious amounts of testosterone, in order to fulfil the fantasy of a man. (And if it's the same man, said it was more exciting than what a lover could do.)

It really is disturbing and nauseating and I'm actually shocked that a medical professional is pushing this, with no official action against them. It's bizarre, to say the least.

But God forbid a female wants to bottle feed formula. It is misogyny repackaged

Does anyone have a free access link to the Telegraph article about this please for those of us who can't access?https://twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1759148768849440938

La scapigiata 's linked to her book case study on this
https://lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body/

Not so much cry @SoupDragonsFriend but absolutely rage. I've fed 3 kids over about 9 years. I've been policed, questioned, called weird for feeding a preschooler, had random people make comments about a glass of wine while feeding a 3yo. I BF throughout a medicated diabetic pregnancy and answered questions from anyone who saw me inject insulin while feeding. Suffered aversion, mastitis, over supply, bleeding, tongue tie and been treated for a galactocele while pregnant. I'm a staunch BF supporter. This makes me so angry, so outraged, because it's involving babies in a fetish and nothing more.

I'm a biological female who breastfed her children and I'm struggling to read this thread. It's making me cry.

Anyone else feeling the same?

Oh, don't worry, they won't be donating any... They don't want to see babies fed, and they certainly won't be donating their "milk" for others. Because the ONLY reason they're doing this is to satisfy their own twisted and sick fantasies.

They are not, never have and never will be doing this for the benefit of the tiny helpless human being who NEEDS milk to survive. Because if they did, they'd ensure they did everything they could to support the mother in breastfeeding and financially supporting breastfeeding clinics, raising awareness etc. they aren't doing that...are they??

Probably out fear of being called transphobic!!

Agreed. Every transwomen I've personally interacted with has taken it as their right to access women's spaces, sports and lesbian sexual partners and why wouldn't they when this is being encouraged by large swathes of society? I'm sure some don't, but I'm yet to meet one.

To be fair this Trust may be the best of the NHS. Other NHS Trusts involved, and NHS England, have refused to answer safeguarding FOI's/ complaints about this, stating it is either
'offensive' and 'discriminatory' to transpeople to suggest some children of transitioner's dads have sexual fetishes/ paraphilias or that only the parent can complain- ie the same adult who wants children to be forced to suck male nipples.

There are a lot of unprotected children of transitioners out there. Many organisations dominated by trans lobby groups are actively ignoring safeguarding failures about their trans policies. It's not just the NHS- SWE, CPS, NSPCC, police, schools etc have similar problems (another iicsa enquiry in a few years?).

There are some serious questions to be asked about the medical director of a hospital in the UK who's pushing this niche view. However, given the complete and shameful capture of the NHS by trans ideologists, that will never happen.

A full analysis of the lactate to see if it is the same as lactate from biological women. People talk about it being full of drugs so that wouldn't be good, I have no idea what sort of drugs trans women take I thought it was just synthetic hormones but I am not very knowledgeable on the subject.

If the lactate turns out to be identical I don't see any problem with allowing trans women to feed their babies if they wish although continuing to give colostrum in the early days should still be encouraged. If it is not in any way nutritionally enough for a baby then I would want them to discourage people from doing it.

If the lactate is identical the potential benefit could be increased bonding with both parents and in some cases a baby being breast fed that would not have been otherwise. The potential harms appear to be the lack of colostrum, the lactate not being tailored to that baby as it would be from the biological mother. If the lactate is inferior or basically not human milk the potential harms are of course much higher and unless it is at least as nutritious as powdered baby milk, the use of it should be widely discouraged at the very least.

I can't believe any mother hands her newborn over to be force fed this toxic waste either, so I think medical authorities should be looking at investigating domestic abuse rather than trying to assist with gaslighting new mothers.

You've all said it all perfectly, but once again, why? I do not believe any man, regardless of identity, has any biological imperative to 'breastfeed'. It is a completely pointless exercise and highly unlikely that any man would go through the necessary medication and pumping regime purely for validation. It is a fetish. That's it. A fetish which requires babies. Newborn infants. No testing, no debate, no analysis required. For the NHS to even suggest there is any value in any of this is mind blowing.

The demands these days are utterly bizarre.

First women have been told they have to prove they are disadvantaged in sports before men will stop being placed their category.

Now, women are being told that they have to prove men’s drug-induced breast secretions are worse for babies than mother’s milk before the men will stop.

It should be the other way round. Men should have been asked to prove it would not disadvantage women before they were shoved into women’s sports and men should have to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that their drug-induced breast secretions are safer for babies than formula before they are allowed to shove their nipples into a child’s mouth.

The sexism in all this has always been off the scale.