"Human Milk" ffs

Well exactly. Breastfeeding support is almost entirely charity led, provided by volunteers. Milk banking similar, when I donated in Oxford it was a group of older women who drove around picking up donations. We have one milk bank in Scotland (Glasgow) to cover the whole country. It's hugely underfunded and what IS very clear is that giving donor breastmilk to prem babies whose mums can't breastfeed them can help protect against serious gut conditions like necrotising enterocolitis, which can be life threatening.
https://www.bliss.org.uk/parents/about-your-baby/medical-conditions/necrotising-entercolitis-nec

I would love to see an interview with a consultant neonatal paediatrician about what is the gold standard of feeding for these pre babies - the list would be mother's own milk, then donor breastmilk, then special formula. I bet "donor milk from a transwoman" wouldn't even feature. Because they ARE focused on the health of their patients, not the feels of men.

what makes be so cross, is 99% of men pretending to be women, just want a quiet life

I'm sure there must be the odd one, but sorry, I don't believe it's 99% or anything like that.

It's not ethical. It's disgusting.

So this doctor believes that a high level of testosterone in the milk COULD be a problem but that nobody has really researched it. It's clear they do need to do more research as there's not much out there!

Because we're mere women. And a man pretending to be a woman is clearly more important, because they're a man.

If they really believed that they were truly women, they'd be supporting women in breastfeeding, they'd be supporting women ...but they're not, they're supporting men breastfeeding, they're supporting men to do unnatural things to make men feel better about themselves.

If "TWAW" then all this bullshit about men breastfeeding wouldn't happen. Because, they would accept that, part of being a woman, is that... sometimes you CAN'T breastfeed your baby. Not your fault, just pure biology/genetics. So why are you pumping your body full of chemicals to do this? A lot of actual women can't perform this function... So Transwomen should accept this.

It's part of being a woman....

Oh wait, no, because they're actually men, entitled, arrogant, inconsiderate, selfish, self absorbed arseholes, who don't want to actually be a woman with all that it entails.

what makes be so cross, is 99% of men pretending to be women, just want a quiet life, and weirdos who want to fulfil their weird fantasies are giving them all a bad name!

It is. But not only that, you have the NHS endorsing it.

That babies shouldn't be used to give adult males the physical sensations of lactation and feeding, perhaps?

We're all dancing around the elephant in the room here, as well, obviously.

I wouldn't have a reference if they are indeed identical but I'm being told that studies have found they are not but not where i can find these studies.

Studies haven't been done apart from the arguably flawed studies under discussion that purport to make a case that male breastfeeding is natural and fine.

How can it possibly be ethical to fund this but not breastfeeding support for mums? The nhs is so so badly mismanaged. It's not lacking in funds but in sense.

I was actually thinking I hope nobody is feeding men's milk to kids when I read this. I got the wrong end of the stick (literally).
But it's utter bunkum. God knows what all these hormones will do not only to the babies but to men - cancer and god knows what. It will all come out in the end.

Thanks @BeautifulViews the review I posted looks at that study as a footnote. The amount of milk produced would not alone be enough to sustain a baby, and there are concerns that it was compared to a later stage of breast milk, not breastfeeding a newborn. The baby was already being fed by its mother.

From the review:

Incomplete analysis of male nipple discharge: presence of medications including Domperidone, cross-sex hormones or antibodies in the male breast fluid not measured; sodium not measured (it was low-ish in another study); other nutrients “at the same level or HIGHER” (not necessarily a good thing); comparison with mature mother’s milk (70-94 days after delivery) not with colostrum or transitional milk appropriate for a newborn.

Uniqueness of mother’s milk to the baby and its fundamental difference from male nipple discharge wasn’t explored.

Inadequate volume (just 150ml per day) mitigated by the fact that mother was breastfeeding this baby the entire time

If the infant had access to adequate nutrition, immune support and bonding via breastfeeding from their own mother, and developmentally appropriate formula is available should anything go wrong, the only reason this experiment was conducted was to satisfy the desire of the man, not to benefit the baby.

What is the problem they're trying to solve here? I can't see anything here in babies' best interests.

I wouldn't have a reference if they are indeed identical but I'm being told that studies have found they are not but not where i can find these studies.

Well, if you're happy for a man to take drugs and attach your baby to his nipple to feed
Then good for you.

But why isn't the funding, support and research being used for women to feed their babies. Women who struggle to produce mil, who struggle to latch, who struggle with the emotional fallout of "failing", who struggle to ask for help because this is "something all women should be able to do", ...

Why are men who want to fulfil their own messed up fantasies more important than the MILLIONS of mothers???

What would you prefer for your sick, pre-term baby?

That money and research should go to ACTUAL women struggling to feed their own babies. The breastfeeding support groups are all closed down round here due to lack of funding, women aren't supported, they're made to feel like failures, feel like they can't go to GP for help etc

But here we are are, funding this to fucking self obsessed men who want to feed babies full of chemically induced milk so they can fulfil a fucking sick fantasy of their own.
Forcing a baby to suck a man's breast tissue to get the essential nourishment they need to survive and thrive, all so the man can pretend he is a woman is seriously fucked up.

This is a review of several studies by a medical doctor.

lascapigliata.com/2023/07/03/case-study-2-experiment-of-induced-lactation-in-a-trans-identifying-male-excerpt-from-born-in-the-right-body/

Lactation Induction in a Transgender Woman: Macronutrient Analysis and Patient Perspectives - PubMed (nih.gov)

Most of what I find says it hasn't been researched much yet!

Is that the one where he said it was more exciting than anything a lover had ever done to him and not to judge him? And the doctor in charge was also MtF?

🙄

"Instead we have the supposed four types of AGP mind explained to us, these are: transvestic (clothes), behavioural (getting turned on by typical behaviours of a woman, i.e. sexist tropes), anatomic (wanting a female body) and physiological (‘arousal by the fantasy of having female body functions’,"

My bold.

https://the-lies-they-tell.org/2024/02/11/review-of-book-transsexual-apostate-by-debbie-hayton/

Ffs what is wrong with the NHS???

I've searched online and only found studies that say it's basically the same as non-induced breast milk.

Could you link them here please? There are lots of people here with knowledge in this area.

@MacaroonMacaron Surely all breastmilk can be described as 'a hormone-laden cocktail of secretions'. If induced milk has the same chemical makeup and nutritional value as natural milk, what's the problem?

Is the "5 month study" they are referring to that one where a MTF tested their own secretions? Breast milk arguably has benefits many years down the line. 5 months wouldn't be enough to measure that.

The milk banking charity - these banks are not routinely NHS funded - refers to both breastmilk and human milk interchangeably. Also donated milk. Their website makes lots of references to mums and mothers.

Having donated breastmilk over many months in two separate hospitals, there are LOTS of hoops to jump through. Before being accepted as a donor, there are blood tests and they ask for access to your maternity notes. If you take as much as a paracetamol you have to tell them. Some medications rule you out from donating entirely - even if you are feeding your own baby as a healthy 3 month old is very different from a 28 week premature baby.

It's clearly ridiculous that they are even contemplating allowing men to donate a hormone-laden cocktail of secretions. But no neo-natal paediatrician is ever going to choose to give that fluid to a very sick and very prem baby over milk from a woman, or even special formula. Once you donate your milk you don't know what's happened to it anyway. Anyone who has ever expressed milk will know it's hard going, I also struggle to see how any men will ever produce more than 5ml in a go.

Here's the link - sometimes the pious avoidance of the Mail causes more issues than it cures. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13095965/Row-hospitals-say-hormone-filled-milk-trans-women-born-male-just-good-baby-real-thing.html

Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust which I assume covers Brighton. What a surprise. Rosie Duffield absolutely right in saying "Babies can't be used as guinea pigs for someone else's lifestyle choice."

I only found a link to DM articles, no actual studies. I've searched online and only found studies that say it's basically the same as non-induced breast milk.