John Lewis in Trouble

PersephoneSeethes · Today 14:09

All I can say is that she doesn't seem to care about the customer or want to keep the traditional JL/Waitrose customer. I don't think she even really cared about the business, she just saw it as an interesting social engineering tool.

I think it's part of the idea that any project manager can manage anything, even if they'd never worked in the field before. I work in offshore survey and one company brought in a land based construction engineer in and he was actively useless.

He had no idea who to call for equipment, much less how to get flights organised and vessels mobilised. He just tried to take people away from their work, delegating tasks to them and having tantrums when it all went wrong, because "Terry and Sandra wouldn't help!" It wasn't their job to come off something with a deadline and sort someone else's shit.

Yes, the ANYDAY and the expansion of Waitrose Essentials was very confusing and seemingly ill thought out.

Ex. buying school tights: they were the exact same fabric mix, made in the same country, same qty, but several pounds cheaper.

Beef mince: there are now three or four levels of quality, and they constantly change that with no information. It used to be Essentials, then the different beef types and now they have taken those away for, Essentials at fat % 'heritage breeds' and a specific farm name but no information, it's all nasty quality. I hesitate to give the dog the Essentials mince because it looks so fatty. You waste fifteen minutes just trying to get mince for ragu or tacos and end up walking away empty handed.

It never fails to amaze how many brands obsess about attracting new customers, at the expense of the ones they have already got (looking at you, BBC). Do they not understand how age works?

John Lewis seem hell-bent on attracting customers who are too young to have much spending power, when what they actually need to do is have an offer that is attractive to each generation when it hits about 30 and onwards.

Gen Z and Gen A will no doubt like different styles to those favoured by Gen X and Millenials, but they will still age into having the same core needs as us - for house, kids etc. My house looks very different from that of my grandparents/parents, in terms of style but (other than tech) the type of contents are the same. And Gen Z are already quite savvy, in terms of value for money and avoiding planned obsolescence, so they are shaping up to be perfect traditional JL customers of the future. But it appears there will be no JL left to meet their needs.

I posted this video to another thread but I thought it belonged here.
It is worth a watch if you have an hour.
It is from 4 years ago and so it's fascinating to see how her changes have come into fruition.

All I can say is that she doesn't seem to care about the customer or want to keep the traditional JL/Waitrose customer. I don't think she even really cared about the business, she just saw it as an interesting social engineering tool.

She didn't understand that while there have been long term Partners who were emotionally invested with the company, many of its customers were too.

Anecdata: my local M&S have a majority of middle aged women as staff (both in the local M&S food and in the clothing store). Some of the shelf stackers are much younger but the staff generally skew old.

To me, it felt odd for a company with a reputation for fair prices/strong quality to launch a product line that was supposed to be even cheaper than its standard John Lewis brand? Drawing attention to the price makes me assume the quality won't be as good - which might be unfair, but not if some of the t-shirts I bought (seams twisted, shrank, holes) were anything to go by...

I bought an Anyday mattress protector and it was fine, in fact it was better than most as it had a skirt to go around the mattress rather than those annoying bits of elastic at the corners so I bought another one, good value at £10 and as good as more expensive ones I have had.

For me, that Ryanair analogy is exactly why I didn't understand the ANYDAY strategy - if you want budget, you go to IKEA or Tesco, and you expect it to fall apart sooner rather than later. John Lewis/M&S still have that reputation for 'might cost a few pounds more but will last' quality that appeals to shoppers who aren't into fast fashion - but maybe when it comes down to it, there just aren't enough people out there with a 'buy cheap, buy twice' mentality to make the numbers add up?

I'd be interested to know how sites like Buy Me Once are doing - with the emphasis on ethically made, long-lasting products that might cost more initially but can be repaired/updated. Didn't John Lewis have a Studio range a few years ago, with limited edition furniture, etc? Just as M&S had that Heritage clothing line using traditional British manufacturers (sadly the designs were a bit too fashion forward for me, even though I loved the idea of it.)

So no need to bring it to work then Tristan?

Did John Lewis ever change their mind and decide their cleaners were worthy of being made partners like the other employees?

A lot of Waitrose food is UPFs dressed up as healthy options, it's really important to read the back of the labels and not be lulled into a false sense of security because it's Waitrose.

My local store's produce aisles look like the sack of Rome but large free range eggs are cheaper than lidl eggs if you buy a box of 12 ! There are also things you can't find at normal supermarkets like sun dried tomatoes not in oil, real creme fraîche and buttermilk, venison, etc.

Absolutely spot on. As soon as Waitrose got rid of their free coffee and cheap newspaper, started increasing the size of their Essentials range and reducing it’s prices, then actively trying to compete with the likes of Aldi and Lidl etc I knew they didn’t know what they were doing, didn’t know who they were as a business and had lost the plot.

Losing lines like their French crepes, was that a business decision or a consequence of the difficulties with Brexit?

Either way, all these decisions were disastrous for the shopping experience. It suddenly felt cheap and disappointing and not so special. Waitrose went from a shop for foodies and cooks to just a supermarket. It used to be a delight to spend too much money.

I do wonder is Sharon White a cook and/or a foodie? Or is she someone who can take it or leave it and has other priorities?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow yes exactly. I use Ryanair extensively because it is very cheap and I need to get from Ireland to the UK and back regularly, and it gets me there safely. That's all I need in those circumstances. I have no need of frills, food on board etc, I just need to go to work.

I used to shop in John Lewis (and Waitrose) for precisely the opposite reason, I didn't need most of the things I was buying there, but they were things that were nice to have. I could have gone for cheaper alternatives in other shops, but I liked the things there (mainly clothes and kitchenware in John Lewis) and I liked the atmosphere of the shops. And for non-necessary but nice things I was buying, I trusted them not to rip me off. After a negative experience in a Waitrose in London recently, and reading this thread about John Lewis I won't be bothering again.

If you feel contempt for your customers, you can only sell to them if you have a USP that draws them in anyway, usually price - Ryanair being the obvious example.

But JL's USP was the antithesis of Ryanair. It was all about people paying for quality, reliability, and good customer service. They have abandoned all three of those. So what's the point of them now?

I learned, many years ago that when things look a bit shaky in the economics department, never cut back on quality. You wont get new customers and you'll drive the old ones away (they never come back). I feel as though JLP is putting the blame for Covid/Ukraine economic difficulties onto customers. I just feel a bit ripped off. I think their buyers are a poor bunch and JLP have lost sight of who their demographic is - hey you lot, it's us, the ones with the cash.

It used to be great going into clothing and getting nice quality stuff. The last time we went, there was so much stuff for the very young but not for those of us who have a modern heart but lack the body.

It's all very sad, we will be gutted if it can't be turned around. Dump DEI, focus on customers.

Indeed, when you see a whole double wide shelf of 600ml double cream getting discounted because it’s all expiring the next day, you know major things are going wrong.

It had been displayed with other ingredients for pancake day or similar in those weird end of row cabinets nowhere near the other creams, completely confusing everyone.

This is not an isolated incident.

Many long-standing familiar faces have disappeared from my local branch, and when I mentioned this to a cashier she said that a lot of people have left. It struck me yesterday that the place looked rundown - rubbish on the floor, shelves not stocked and a generally gloomy atmosphere - although after a busy Saturday is probably not the best time to judge. It just seemed that no-one's bothered any more.

M and S have cut their staff to the bone and have a lot of staff on temporary contracts. They clamp down heavily on staff sickness too . It tends to be younger staff in there too who presumably don't have health or childcare issues so therefore are totally flexible and can have their days / hours altered without any problems.

They went back to basics and started to deliver quality clothing instead of blurred sizing such as 12/14 and stopped skimping on cut . They put the needs of the business first .

I was in Asda yesterday, no tills open and my bag wouldn't tare on the self checkout, looked around for staff to help but found it difficult as they weren't in an easily recognised uniform, I thought Asda wore green tops but the staff member that helped me wasn't and the only way I knew it was a staff member was because she had a lanyard on. When she came over I thought at first I had made a mistake and she was a shopper and sort of apologised.

So how does one tell the staff wearing M&S clothing from the customers wearing M&S clothing?

Go round staring at everyone's chest searching for a badge?

It's to save money . I believe in M and S the staff can wear non uniform as long as it's M and S clothing .

There's a theory called the Glass Cliff where a failing business is handed to a woman so she can be blamed when it goes wrong (falls of the cliff). Yahoo is a famous example.

Home Bargains seem to run a tight ship compared to JL. Staff stacking shelves in my local ones are always polite. Everything is price marked and they open new tills if needed. I never been told "it is not my job" in there.

What on earth is wrong with having a uniform?

Everywhere has a uniform. Good grief, Home Bargains staff have uniform shirts and jackets, and a dress code for their other garments and shoes.

As has been pointed out, it makes it possible to spot staff members when you have a question.

Why on earth was she given the job ??!!