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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS directs teenagers to 'Tranzwiki' that links to 'Trans Bare All' website

53 replies

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 20:44

This NHS page is for 'gender confused' teenagers:

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/

The first external link is to 'tranzwiki'

'You can find charities and support groups on the Tranzwiki page on the Gender Identity Research & Education website.'

https://archive.is/xRdV6#selection-1337.0-1337.16

The 'tranzwiki' includes links to various groups for trans identifying people, including:

'Trans Bare all'

'As one of the founding principles of TBA is around supporting body confidence, our events include naked space in which everyone present is welcome to wear as little or as much clothing as they feel comfortable in. As Lee has described, “We found that when people took their clothes off, the conversations changed. Because they had already bared their physical self, they were more open to baring other stuff as well.”'

https://www.transbareall.co.uk/weekends

nhs.uk

Worried about your gender identity? Advice for teenagers

Find out what support is available on the NHS if you're worried about your gender identity.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
TheEagerMintFox · 05/03/2024 21:06

Been an on/off lurker for a while.

I couldn't turn away from this one, it's been playing in my head but I'll try to add things that haven't already been discussed.
I am centering this around the frame that this is what the NHS is directing identity-questioning teenagers to.

Firstly, I can't find any mention of age groups or safeguarding policies on the site.
Let alone looking at their workshops I feel it is a space for adults but it doesn't explicitly say that.
The organisation is putting out events like BDSM and non-monogamy which require clear understanding of boundaries, consent and communication yet doesn't even say what demographic of trans people it is targeted at.
Are we to believe that "trans kids" and trans "toddlers" are in on this process?

Secondly, if it is the case that it accepts teenagers then what the fuck.
That's the main part of the thread naturally.
That is horrific in itself and then goes into the territory of potentially introducing teens to BDSM and polyamory.
Which I innately do not agree with because their brains are not developed enough especially with boundaries and emotions to go into dynamics of power exchange and complex relationship dynamics.
That whole concept is a minefield.
Plus there will already be an age gap between the teens and the team running the event alongside whoever else shows up which is already a dynamic of power exchange in itself.
The whole thing feels so half baked and not entirely thought through, these are identities forged on mixed ideas of sex and gender, how can anyone possibly expect them to have clear concepts of boundaries.

Third thing is it's rural. They mention the Peak District, alright it's a more private setting but if something goes wrong it's harder to get away from/for a guardian to get to. Especially by public transport.

This is wrong on so many levels.
I feel like it would be the perfect scenario for grooming to occur.
It's just too fucking fluid.
I get the impression that someone in the NHS didn't think this through or it was inserted maliciously by an abuser.

Bosky · 02/03/2024 04:11

NHS England is ultimately responsible for the content of the NHS UK website as they commission and pay for it. So if NHS UK does not respond, a compliant should be made to NHS England.

"The NHS website is commissioned by NHS England."

https://www.nhs.uk/about-us/about-the-nhs-website/

NHS England

https://www.england.nhs.uk/

BurrosTail · 01/03/2024 23:54

This is a website about the NHS but content is maintained by the civil service, not by any nhs organisation like NHS England. It says at the bottom it’s crown property, and there is a different England.nhs.uk website which is maintained by NHSE.

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 21:10

Although it never hurts to archive again ime.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 21:09

Everything was archived.

OP posts:
SoupDragonsFriend · 01/03/2024 21:02

Did anyone keep screenshots of the pages that have become inaccessible? They might be useful later. Thanks.

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 20:28

Thanks for the update. I wonder what else can be done.

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Newname000 · 01/03/2024 20:16

Newname000 · 15/02/2024 18:52

I have complained. I started to compose a thoughtful considered message but in the end went with this...

^www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/^
This website is in serious need of updating. It refers people to GIDS which closed last year. The Transwiki link is thankfully not working but had it done so the NHS would have been guilty of sending CHILDREN to some really dodgy sites. Has no one had any safeguarding training? Finally, someone on the website team should read the CASS review ^cass.independent-review.uk/^

Sent it to the NHS website team.

https://www.nhs.uk/contact-us/contact-nhs-website-team/

Update: Thought I'd give it a couple of weeks and, strangely, I haven't had a reply.

ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 20:19

theDudesmummy · 15/02/2024 17:22

That "tranzwiki" link doesn't work any more. Presume someone in the NHS developed some sense?

Broken link, more like. The wiki is still an embedded hyperlink but the page has been updated.

Unfortunately it's not because anyone thought of safeguarding issues.

OP posts:
Newname000 · 15/02/2024 19:19

duc748 · 15/02/2024 19:13

GIDS hasn't actually closed, has it? Albeit not accepting new patients.

They will be part of the handover but the Tavistock will not be part of the new national service. Responsibility for managing the GIDS waiting list has now transferred completely from the Tavistock to NHS England.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/

duc748 · 15/02/2024 19:13

GIDS hasn't actually closed, has it? Albeit not accepting new patients.

Newname000 · 15/02/2024 18:52

I have complained. I started to compose a thoughtful considered message but in the end went with this...

^www.nhs.uk/live-well/trans-teenager/^
This website is in serious need of updating. It refers people to GIDS which closed last year. The Transwiki link is thankfully not working but had it done so the NHS would have been guilty of sending CHILDREN to some really dodgy sites. Has no one had any safeguarding training? Finally, someone on the website team should read the CASS review ^cass.independent-review.uk/^

Sent it to the NHS website team.

https://www.nhs.uk/contact-us/contact-nhs-website-team/

duc748 · 15/02/2024 18:02

tranzwiki comes under GIRES, I see. From their website front page:

Relying on biology to define sex is problematic. It is not binary. It would also be impractical to require that it can only be defined at birth. It is not immutable. If sex is to be defined then so would gender.

Sometimes I have sympathy with Michael Gove and his 'had enough of experts'. If these are the experts.... 🙄

theDudesmummy · 15/02/2024 17:22

That "tranzwiki" link doesn't work any more. Presume someone in the NHS developed some sense?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2024 17:08

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

These males all sound exactly the same.

ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 12:40

breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

'Trans Bare All' makes no mention that I can see of age limits or rules or target age groups.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 12:40

breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

'Trans Bare All' makes no mention that I can see of age limits or rules or target age groups.

OP posts:
HelenDamnation1 · 15/02/2024 11:23

Oh my god, please can people complain about this. I can't directly as I'm NHS and will probably get ostracised/cancelled.

This is insane shit, I'm fucking furious!

pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 11:15

Because he wants to be the most important only person in the world, and at some stages, that’s mum.

Froodwithatowel · 15/02/2024 10:56

And of course no thought that their mother might have quite fancied being their father and not being the default one etc? And that it's a team game? And the poor little poppet trying to cope with his awful feelings by being a good father.... the horror. How sad for him.

Everything is always everyone else's fault and their responsibility to fix. Lundy Bancroft coming to mind again: the absolute inability to take responsibility.

Datun · 15/02/2024 10:34

pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 09:07

This has Narc dripping from it.

The amazing insights he discovers, other people merely existing to support or undermine his experience. The self conscious writing style.

Doesn’t anyone notice and wonder if it’s a good look for the organisation? Transgression etc.

Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother.

Jesus wept. Because men can't bond with their children???

Dogfisher · 15/02/2024 10:15

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

😡

breakfastdinnerandtea · 15/02/2024 09:30

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

Am I a peculiar type of woman who isn't turned on by looking at themselves wearing women's clothes in the mirror? I can't say I've ever put any clothes on and felt aroused at looking at myself.

And, let me get this straight...? There's an organisation who have events where trans teenagers are encouraged to strip off to nothing? Who are the actual people organising these things? How have they not been arrested?

ArabellaScott · 15/02/2024 09:15

The 'gendy' network linked to had articles from Stephen Whittle and Christine Burns etc, some stuff going back to 1990.

OP posts:
pickledandpuzzled · 15/02/2024 09:07

ArabellaScott · 14/02/2024 21:26

Transwiki also links to an old magazine that contains accounts from various 'trans' identifying people.

Including this one:

https://archive.ph/7aPE9

'When puberty, with a very limited knowledge of the facts of life occurred, I was still relatively OK with my developing manhood. The only thing which marked me out as different was a vague wish to have a female body and a desire to dress in female attire. I was brought up in a very puritanical Christian household, had only brothers and my mother was in her fifties by this time. She was several stones overweight and rather old fashioned in her taste in clothing (Sorry Mum!) I had few opportunities to experiment with women's clothes, but when I did found the experience arousing. I was very ashamed of this little peccadillo of mine. As masturbation was a sin, then what must it be if I found myself aroused by the ridiculous reflection in a mirror of a skinny teenager in old fashioned female clothes that were big enough to wrap around me twice???
...
I never admitted it to anyone. Later on my wife never knew that at times I "borrowed" her clothes. She did not know that many of the pieces of lingerie that I bought her would occasionally adorn my body, not just hers.'
...
'It was not until I became a father that I had the tiniest glimmerings of other things not being quite right. Many fathers are jealous of the relationship between mother and child, but I was jealous, not so much of the fact that the relationship existed, but more that right from the beginning my relationship with my children was different from hers. I wanted that bonding. In short I wanted to be their mother. So feeling guilty about this I tried extra hard to be the good husband and father. Still occasionally cross-dressing when the coast was clear.'

This has Narc dripping from it.

The amazing insights he discovers, other people merely existing to support or undermine his experience. The self conscious writing style.

Doesn’t anyone notice and wonder if it’s a good look for the organisation? Transgression etc.