Failure to provide a toilet for the exclusive use of women is sex discrimination

If they do then perhaps they could also lobby for privacy and single sex spaces for men but I guess they're not bothered enough to do anything. Shame really as it would support women.

Maybe it's the fact that at least some toilets are patrolled which is highly significant? Reinforces the internal inhibition?

They wouldn't be entitled to use communal women's toilets, even with the Haldane/Inner House judgement. Because women's human rights to privacy, dignity and safety.

They won't/can't repeal the GRA, but the best solution I have seen would be Naomi Cunningham's solution which is an amendment disapplying the GRA from the EA. Puts the GRA back in its box. Confines its operation to what most MPs thought they were agreeing to, ie allowing the people to be married or buried/cremated as a woman/man. The whole question of males counting as women for equality measures, women's book clubs etc goes away. No males, with or without certificates, in women's public facilities.

Ok - still not sure what your point is, though.

Agree but I have to emphasise again that I've never had problems in France of this sort. Yes I've had to queue (that's when you notice the urinals!) and yes I've had to use my own tp, but I've never had men trying to "interfere" with women or trying to see me sitting or squatting, even tho there's often less security between the men's and women's than here.

‘especially where the conveniences are patrolled’
That elusive nirvana. The only time I have seen a person patrolling the loos is in big London department stores. Yes it works but equating it to Tesco, a station or a large office building is not realistic.

I ½ believe it! I know that it MIGHT just incite boys to do "nasty" things or worse. But it SEEMS to work in France, especially where the conveniences are patrolled. I've actually NEVER had "problems" using a toilet in France (not of the sort we're talking about here anyway!) but I certainly have in the UK.

I understand NOW the necessity for women-only toilets!

Thank you. Ok so that’s another set of reasons reason why GRA should be repealed. Firstly there’s the veil of legal secrecy around GRCs and who has them. So women who are made to feel uncomfortable at work are put on the back foot to begin with if their HR team are not allowed to confirm or deny whether the man in their work toilets has the GRC or not. That creates a chilling effect on feeling that they can complain at all.

Secondly it is entirely morally wrong and sexist that any women at work should have to put up with men in their toilet spaces, just because men have a piece of entitling paper.

And no, the answer here isn’t for employers to put in gender neutral toilets. I don’t think many women want to be clearing up our male colleagues’ piss before we are able to use the toilets at work..

The FWS 3 case clarified that they must have a GRC to use the opposite sex toilets. So yes, if an employer is allowing a male without a GRC to use the female toilets then the females have a case.

There’s also the issue that there can be single sex toilets but (male) employees who consider themselves entitled to because of their outfit choices, are allowed with management knowledge, to use the women’s toilets. Do female employees have a legal case against the employer there?

The law talks about employers providing toilets, and the assumption back whenever the law was made must have been, that employees wouldn’t ever use the opposite sex one.

I have the deepest respect for all of the clever and knowledgeable posters here.

But doesn't anyone just itch to take the common-sense approach...

'FFS Dave just go and pee and do your lippy in the men's toilets and leave women alone. No-one cares if you're wearing a dress anyway'.

Or some-such?

The serious point I'm trying to make is that I can't believe that we're tying ourselves up in knots about this... The only winners are the activists and the lawyers IMO. And the losers are women, every time. It's sad.

Oh the bravity of youth

I merrily used the men's loos when the women's queue was too long at that age. Because I hadn't been sexually assaulted by then and it felt relatively safe amongst uni mates.

know French girls who say it's a good thing because it stops them thinking they've something they can frighten us with.

You honestly believe that? 🙈

Ah you're only 20. You'll learn.

I wouldn't have been worried at 20. As you get older and understand mvawg better, I think you appreciate the reasoning behind single-sex spaces.

I don't think they are in France. They are probably used to it from school, and in fact I know French girls who say it's a good thing because it stops them thinking they've something they can frighten us with.

I know, that's why I said "personally". I don't think many women if my age (20) would be worried.

Well we wouldn't want women in the men's room, men can be dangerous—

@NPET. Did you ever consider that the men using the urinals might feel uncomfortable peeing in front of you?

But that's not true for all women. Indeed, some women would be unable to use toilets like that. They have to work for everybody.

Couldn't agree more.

Personally, I'm not worried about walking past urinals (I've done it often enough in France!) as long as I can eventually get to a safe, lockable space free from men to do my own urinating in!

Strange how it's always the women's facilities which become "all gender", and never the men's, isn't it?

Well I have just outed myself if it happens in future! Having had to revive someone who is blue on the toilet floor definitely puts ‘hurty feelings’ into perspective.