Sunak telling Robin White that biological sex is important live on GB news

Well, we all have our personal tastes don't we?

Ahhhh! So schools shouldn’t be asked to do things that add extra pressure such as report on what they are or aren’t not doing, and anecdotes are to be dismissed. Even when used to show that there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

It does all become clearer, doesn’t it.

Anecdotes aren't enough

Setting aside the minimising of our posts as mere anecdotes for one moment, whatever happened to "believe women"?

One of the greats! 😉

That's a great question.

Which speaks to the heart of the Denton's document, because they knew that the T had to be tacked on to something more popular.

I actually like RMW's voice... I wonder if they do a bit of singing; it has that quality to it.

I remember during Allison's tribunal, Robin didn't say very much, and then I heard their voice.
I was a gnats wing away from asking (on the thread) 'who was the (ahem) person with the lovely voice'? 😬

Starmer would be wriggling like a butterfly trying to get out of its chrysalis.

Was that genuinely RMW's response??

You have taken 'busy transing kids' to mean more than I meant. Maybe I didn't word it right. But I think also you are using my maybe slightly sloppy language to try to downplay what is happening in some schools. The stats above that you want to ignore on what is going on shows schools going outside their remit on gender issues are not rare outliers.

But any school supporting social transition of any child behind their parents back is doing something they shouldn't do.
Any school getting mermaids / stonewall in to teach GI and incorrect law to children as facts not one view is doing more than it should do.
Any school putting boys into girls single sex provision is doing more than it should do.
Any school shutting down pupils who believe sex is more important than gender is doing more than it should do.
Schools running LGBTQI++ clubs without massive care and attention as to the messages they are giving are contributing.
Some schools are doing the above. That is what I meant by 'busy'. Doing stuff that is not their business to be doing.

AdamRyan · Today 10:49

No I mean anecdotes aren't enough to know whether or not schools are "busy transing kids".

It reflects broadly the news reports, which have been linked many times on MN.

No I mean anecdotes aren't enough to know whether or not schools are "busy transing kids". Especially anecdotes off the Internet.

I'm really offended by that "busy transing kids" statement, on behalf of teachers I know doing their best in very difficult circumstances.

My children's school have let one of my children down badly this year, but I think that's because they are so massively overstretched rather than any theories around ideological agendas or that they "chose" to do it.

I also know people with GNC teens and I wouldn't want to be in the position of having to decide how to respond. It seems no win, whether a parent goes along with it or refuses to go along with it.

I think a little less judgement of individual choices would be helpful.

AdamRyan · Today 10:33

Anecdotes aren't evidence.

So, posters here writing of their own experiences are meaningless. Is that what you mean?

Oh I missed this one yesterday. I wouldn't draw any conclusions, the report on just factual.

I do think it's a bit weird LGB Alliance have hidden their Tufton Street address. It's a bit coincidental they would be in the same building as a load of right wing think tanks. That's as far as I would go, unless LGB alliance started putting forward "independent journalists" for gigs like Question Time and not being clear they were from LGB alliance.

This massively misunderstands the purpose of safeguarding and who gets to make decisions in circumstances like this. If teachers are making unilateral judgments that a child’s parents are such a risk to their child that they are keeping secret a social transition and withholding information about name changes, breast binding etc from that parent then it is the teacher that has become the safeguarding risk. I’m amazed that this has not yet played out in court but I imagine it’s only a matter of time before it does. Teachers are completely overstepping the line with this.

Sorry are you saying that MN users lived experience is to be discounted??

Anecdotes aren't data, but unless you are saying parents are lying, parents have reported here on MN of their child having name and pronouns changed by school behind their back, etc. That is evidence.

Robin has what my mother would have called "an unfortunate face".

And everything else.

Anecdotes aren't evidence.

AdamRyan · Today 08:16

I was referring to the fact I objected to a previous poster saying schools were busy transing kids.

Yes, well, the evidence is that that is exactly what some schools are doing. This comes from personal anecdotes, as well as online reportage.

Going by some previous posters reasoning, and adopting a reverse (?) ad locum perspective, I must conclude that

1. Open Democracy = good, therefore all Open Democracy reports = good.
2. Thus, I am not supposed to question or be sceptical about these author’s underlying motivation in writing this article.
3. And accept the premise that the LGB Alliance is not a charity advocating for gay and bisexual people, but rather a sinister libertarian cartel to be squashed.

This is despite that the article is the first and last article written by these two authors of this ‘expose’ posted on Open Democracy (a website I have trusted). Which felt odd.

So, looking a bit more, I wonder if the Gemma Stone authoring this piece is this Gemma; https://uk.linkedin.com/in/gemma-stone-39a0ba198?

And if the other author, Lee Hurley, is this Lee Hurley?
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/lee-hurley

Clearly not the vote-winner that Rishi expected in Wellingborough and Kingswood.

I was referring to the fact I objected to a previous poster saying schools were busy transing kids. Then I got 2 pages of being picked up on that as if I support TRA activities in schools.

AdamRyan · Yesterday 20:23

+ + Some schools have staff who using children to validate their identity and belief in gender ideology. Some schools have male teachers who have autogynephelia and are therefore acting out their paraphelia in front of children. + +

Implying all schools are "captured" and transing children is not.

You have misrepresented other poster's words several times here, yet you're accusing others oh employing hyperbole.

I agree with your idea for an LEA led teaching practice, with little or no outsourcing. If anything is outsourced, ally materials should be freely available to parents. I'm thinking of things like Forest School and residential trips.

Yes - TRAs encouraging children to DM them or saying ‘I’m your mom now’ / ‘You’re part of my glitter family.’

Incredibly irresponsible, and that’s the most generous interpretation.

It's my understanding that this wouldn't happen.

If there was a situation that meant it was too dangerous to tell the parents, they would still tell them, only now social services would have to be involved.

Teachers cannot just remove parental responsibility!

If they believe there's a danger from the parents to the children, it has to be addressed, and it still has to involve the parents until the courts decide otherwise.

Adult TRAs love to pretend that this must all be secret, because children are getting abused by their parents by 'coming out'.

They're splashed across social media positively encouraging division between children and their parents.

(i'm not suggesting you're doing that Adam).

They're not doing their jobs if they're keeping secrets about a child's trans identity. They should be sharing the information with the child's parents, and involve social services if they believe the child to be at risk from their parents.