Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

This. No one is even grateful. It’s never quite enough.

I wouldn’t be surprised if news broke next year that it all started as an internet joke that got out of hand.

I do have to say, I agree that the idea that women should abandon their sporting ambitions and interests and gladly sacrifice such things for the so important glow that their losing to him may give a man is bonkers. There really is no other word for it.

So instead of changing it they have buried it? Literally could have changed it to make it fair without too much effort chose to pander instead

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

You say "a few places", presumably on the basis that there will only be a few transwomen in the "female" category and that the vast majority of "female" participants will still be women.

Is there a number of males registered as female that would tip the balance whereby it would be unfair to still call it a female category as opposed to being a mixed category?

If all the biological women except one left Parkrun and the "female" category consisted of all biological males except one, is that still fair for the woman?

Indeed Stephanie. It's very obvious to many of us.

Its also important to note here...
The transwomen can still do Parkrun in female clothing, with female hairstyle, or make up etc.
They can still chose which name they want to be known as while doing it.
They can still run as a women. The only difference would be their results being measured against their biological sex, or a neutral category, rather than in the female category.

I thought there was "too much discussion" about this parkrun thing. Why are you discussing? Is it actually that there's "too many people who disagree with me and I can't cope please shut up"?

You are of course entitled to your point of view. And my point of view is that you are not only bonkers but completely batshit mental if you really believe that the feelings of trans women trump those of women.

but hey ho, it’s a free country and all that

How do you know it's just 'slight disappointment' for the women losing rankings, and not just 'slight disappointment' for the transwoman who has to compete in a male category? Maybe they'd just be mildly irritated that they can't compete as a women, and some of the women are majorly upset at having no chances to ever succeed in their own biological category!

It's just just 'one transwomen' pushing women down a few places - as soon as it starts happening, there will be more and more.

And there is harm to women, not just in being pushed down a few places, but in losing motivation and role models for those just beginning to run, or for girls coming up, or those women who want to pursue running more seriously. Parkrun could be the gateway to longer term fitness and exercise, which is notoriously difficult to get girls to do after puberty. And yet people say that their times and records don't matter, as long as the transwomen doesn't get disappointed by being made to face reality in this specific instance - something where it is clear that biology does matter.

No-one is saying they shouldn't run, or that it's not inclusive of them - just keep in the right category, or even make a new one.

Okay and after being interested in, engaging with and understanding where others are coming from I'm genuinely curious to know why you thought telling them so what, and that men's feelings are more important than theirs was going to add to the conversation?

It's not about it being an echo chamber. It's about the fact that your whole answer against some well reasoned posts is "so what you don't matter". Which is quite frankly far more rude than calling someone sweetheart

The obvious. Because we all know who's a man and who has to accommodate. It's funny, in situations like this, it's always completely clear that everyone knows full well who the men are.

There is a transman who runs our local parkrun who is regularly in the first five to ten finishers. I get what you're saying about that person's training and athleticism being more of a factor than for transwomen but it still, surely, makes the results inaccurate. I think this is one where some sort of third category would be needed as they are presumably taking testosterone to a level which would be considered doping if that ran (correctly) as a woman so that's not fair either. But I really dislike the notion of third categories as it feels like a step towards saying there is more than just male/female.

Mind you our women's course record is held by a transwoman so we don't even know who is really the fastest female finisher.

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

Why?

I'm not saying the trans woman is more important that other women just that the positive for her is greater than the negative for others.

What made you come to that conclusion?

An athletic trans man is likely to be quicker than plenty of less athletically inclined men in the same age group, just not as fast as the fastest men.

But that edge that the athletic transman has over a non-athletic man isn't by virtue of their being biologically female - it's due to their athletic training.

So it wouldn't make a difference to males whether it is a transman or an extra biological male joining his category, as the deciding factor as to who is in front would still be based on training and athletic ability as far as a man's performance is concerned.

If transmen did gain a performance advantage over biological males specifically by being trans (e.g. by taking high levels of testosterone that negates the effects of having biologically female bodies), then of course that would be unfair to men too (and I'm sure we would hear about it pretty quickly).

Yes I am interested or I wouldn't have engaged with this. I don't agree with what the majority are saying, but I do understand where they are coming from.

I haven't called anyone "bonkers" or "sweetheart" because I don't feel the need to do that. I think that demeans everyone on here who is expressing a genuine point of view.

If this is not a space for debate then I will gladly bow out and leave you to just echo the same opinion.

Wow. I saw this tweet by Victoria Smith yesterday which seems apt -

https://x.com/glosswitch/status/1756419767500455945?s=20

Women as support humans. What a surprise.

(Edited to add that VS is not the author of the article - she is critiquing it).

Are you actually interested in all the posters giving their alternative opinions that you don't agree with?

A 6ft 5inch father of three who has spent 20 years in the Marines needs to run in the women’s competition?

You’ve been had sweetheart.

Well let's be honest: it's a view that men are more important, and it's the duty and responsibility of good women to sacrifice for them.

No, it's not the job of women to sacrifice sporting ambition for the better happiness of special men. And it should not be compulsory and enforced on those women who do not choose to play Patient Griselda.

Ah yes that good old opinion that men feeling positive about themselves is far more important than women feeling positively about themselves

And if through the actions of men feeling more positively about themselves women end up feeling more negatively about themselves then that doesn't matter, because men are more important

If only there was a word to describe this....

What a very well thought out and persuasive argument.

I won't bother to explain my point of view any more. I thought people might be interested to hear an alternative opinion even if they didn't agree.

And yes you are saying that TW are more important.

That's a revolting attack on women's rights. TW are male. They have male bodies and male privilege and there's no point in women's sports at all if you let males into them. It's not yours to give away. Have some respect.

U R bonkers