Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

Wanting a category for women to be for women is a pretty low bar. Is it really asking that much? How is that both sides being unreasonable?

The 'parkrun question' isn't about how many males take the records or positions of females .. it is about whether women, women's sporting achievements and the participation of women in sport are less important than men's right to identify as women.

There is no need to police the categories, simply changing the language of the rules would be enough.

By removing the results, they are confirming that the feelings of a small number of men matter more than the feelings of women. Men will continue to be seen.

Activity is good for public health and women and girls need to be encouraged to take part. Which is no doubt why taxpayers contribute to Parkrun. Women should have equal rights to both men who wear trousers and those who wear dresses, especially where public health and tax payer expenditure is involved.

Public toilets are a necessity.

Parkrun is an optional event.

People could just choose to stay at home and then they wouldn't need public toilets either. Going out of the house is technically optional.

Why not just tell women they should stay at home and make all the public toilets mixed sex too?

Yeah but telling TRAs that if the event that is letting them compete by gender not sex is not to their liking when it's blatantly in their favour isn't quite the same thing as telling GC women who are losing out from this

Do you ever actually say that to TRAs when they are pushing for something they don't currently have? Otherwise the situation isn't comparable at all

You're making a utilitarian argument that allowing men to compete in women's sport is "for the greater good" i.e. greatest benefit for the greatest number of people. Firstly, I think that is hard to evidence and would be interested to hear your reasoning. But even if that could be said, there's an ethical problem because you're eschewing equity. Maybe equality between the sexes doesn't bother you. But as a woman would you rather live in the UK or in Iran? Because one country advocates equal rights and the other does not. A utilitarian ethical framework is antithetical to the human rights that we benefit from in this country.

The outcome of a utilitarian approach means that men have the right to fair sport and women do not (because women cannot take rankings from men unlike the other way round). This devalues the integrity of sport itself (fair play), but only for women. So women's right to participate in this aspect of public life on an equal standing with men is acceded to the demands of a group of men. When trans-identified men enter women's sports, what rights are they asserting, that they did not have before, that need to be "balanced" against women's right to have the same fair competition in sport that men enjoy?

If the integrity of sport is not important, why don't we allow doping in certain instances where we deem there to somehow be a net benefit to some people?

Women already exercise less than men due to a variety of factors, female athletes earn less, women's sport gets less coverage etc. What's the point of encouraging women into sport if they are going to be beaten by men?

I've said it to several people at my parkrun. A couple of them would probably be on the TRA side.

But out of interest, how often do you tell TRAs that as opposed to GC people?

Moreover

If a venue offers free single sex toilets and you aren't allowed into the toilet of the opposite sex and you are trans do you :

A. So no thank you
B. Start demanding things are changed to suit you

Maybe if TRAs can start modelling some of this "no thank you" behaviour us silly little women can fall in 🙄

Public toilets are a necessity.

Parkrun is an optional event.

The number of people who can't accept that women were women first and we aren't the interlopers!

I apply it to both sides. I don't care if you're the biggest TRA on the planet or the most GC person to ever exist.

It's a free event, run by volunteers. If it's not to your liking, go elsewhere or start your own.

Probably the women should also share the shitty toilet with any men who wanted to use it as well because it's free 🙄

The irony of this statement! Why is this applicable for women but not for TWs? Surely if they don't like having to run as a man then they should say no thank you and not demand that things are changed to suit them.

So you don’t believe in the equality of the sexes?

If two public toilets were offered:

• one for men that was regularly cleaned and well maintained with several urinals and an intact cubicle
• one for women which is a single cubicle with a broken door that is never cleaned and is falling into disrepair

Should women just not go out or use the toilet and shut up as it’s free?

Or are they allowed to complain that the situation is unfair and ask that they are given something equal to what the men are being offered.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You might want to try telling some TRAs that

Do you run? Is it your hobby? Do you go out on a rainy Monday evening to do hill repeats. Do you set your alarm at 6.30am on a Sunday to get a long run in? If not, it's a bit rich to be saying parkrun times/rankings etc don't matter. To an occasional runner they might not, but I'm part of the running community and they do matter.

So a cross dressing man who claims he is a woman not only gets the thrill of being in the women’s race, but also the excitement of being easily able to beat them.

Why would you support such a man,@BiggerBoat1

Why are men’s feelings more important to you than women’s?

Or do you still see these men as poor, defenseless creatures, who hate their manhood so much that they would demean themselves by trying to enter womanhood?

If it's offered to you for free and it's not to your liking you say "no thank you".

You don't start demanding things are changed to suit you.

I've had a first female finisher at a couple of parkruns (admittedly not recently)
I would feel aggrieved if a biological male had claimed that place that should rightfully be mine!
Same as I would in a paid-for race.

I recently got a medal for a women's team prize in a half marathon. Would I have felt slightly annoyed if another team had won because a biological male was in their team? Well yes, and more than slightly!

Why is that ok? Why should it be a "fun run" for women but competitive or fun run or anything in between for men?

Maybe they'd just be mildly irritated that they can't compete as a women, and some of the women are majorly upset at having no chances to ever succeed in their own biological category!

On the other hand, maybe the transwoman would attempt murder over this (lookup Lauren Jeska). Nice, eh, really gets my sympathy.

So basically women should just shut up if something is unfair?

Personally I think it's disgraceful that a free event run by volunteers has become so toxic from both sides.

If you want a run organised exactly how you think it should be - whichever side of the debate you're on - then crack on and start your own and stop having a go at parkrun. Most parkrunners I know are heartily sick of the whole damn controversy.

Personally I think the positive effect for a trans woman being able to compete in the category that fits her identity is more significant than the slight disappointment of other women possibly dropping down by a few places.

No. Bloody well no.

Parkrun seems to be pretty popular, I cant imagine the availability of stats is putting of a load of people who would consider parkrun ...but are put off by the stats. Sorry but that is complete BS