Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

Why do men have the right to cheat but women don't have the right to fair play?
Trans women aren't cheating though as they have every right to run in the women's category at park run.
It's not a competition and park run is OK with it.
Where do you stand on trans men if they had to run in the female category? Just curious as if they were on testosterone they'd surely have an advantage over women?
That wouldn't be fair either then but nobody ever seems to mention that?

Why do men have the right to cheat but women don't have the right to fair play?

If it's a non competitive fun run why is finishing position, including age and sex grading, recorded and given to participants?

And women are campaigning to have male people not be included only in the female category. No woman is campaigning for any 'transgender' athlete to not be able to run at all. It would be a falsity to say that women are campaigning to remove the rights of any transgender athlete to participate in the category for their sex. Except female athletes on testosterone should not be included in the female category either.

Can you clarify please, do you falafels believe that male people should be able to compete in a female sports category when the female sports category has been set up to give female athletes fairness and safety?

Or do you believe that a male athlete taking testosterone suppression drugs reverse all the advantages that puberty has given them?

GI believers and adherents are not even passing acquaintances with the concept of honesty.

This.

I think that's true but when those people moaning are cheats (e.g.males who say they're female) then their moans should be ignored

No, because people who are trans have every right to be there, park run have repeatedly said that everyone can run and is included.
If you don't like that, find a competitive race instead of a local fun event.

If they want to include men in the women's category fine but fund it yourself and be honest

GI believers and adherents are not even passing acquaintances with the concept of honesty.

No it's not the Olympics, it's worse than that. It's an organisation that's given millions of public funds to help increase women's participation in sport and it's cheating in that goal by allowing men to be recorded as women while putting actual women off participation. If they want to include men in the women's category fine but fund it yourself and be honest 🤷‍♀️

But longines, it is the “Policy Exchange”! You know. Right wing! It means that some pure thinking people can ignore anything said because it wasn’t published or researched by the right kind of people.

Very true.

However, even in the evil Policy Exchange report, one of the interviewees reported that Parkrun was already considering doing exactly what they've just done to wriggle out of the problem they'd created by making all categories mixed sex. Which indicates they were already aware of the unfairness and the disadvantage they were causing to women and girls before the report too.

The other reason that interviewing people at Parkrun gives a biased sample set is because obviously the people who don't agree will either have boycotted Parkrun, or they have set their feelings on this issue aside for the benefits they gain from participating.

The former obviously won't be there to be interviewed, and the latter are hardly likely to jeopardise their ability to participate by criticising Parkrun publicly, especially given they've already made a difficult decision to compromise their principles to continue to participate.

Difficulties in enforcement- until a few years ago we had male and female categories and that worked fine, there was a cultural understanding of what was acceptable. Time to reinforce what is culturally acceptable and this should not be men and TW racing in women’s races. We don’t say that it is difficult to enforce against exam cheats so let’s not bother.

If there are categories, then they have clear guidelines. If someone rejects those guidelines, meaning they cannot respect those guidelines, and they enter when they are not eligible, then if that is discovered all records of that participation is removed from the ineligible category and moved to the appropriate category. Or they are disqualified completely and all records removed.

It is not that hard to be honest.

And I suspect that if the guidelines are clear, people who know that a person is in the wrong category will soon let the organisers know. And if any person wants to then try to use the 'but we are all volunteers and this is onerous and people shouldn't expect us to do this', then tell that to the people who will not respect the categories that have been set up. Don't fucking tell women and girls who simply want to have a fair category to participate in. If the guidelines are clear, the issue is then with the male who registers as a female NOT the female participants who complain.

Rufus: spot on. Thank you.

To answer GetOnNow's question;

So historically at conventional running races, if a cheat was suspected, other competitors or martials would flag it with the race director and it would be investigated.

(Let's not beat around the bush - this is cheating. Pure and simple)

This is so much easier to investigate to a conclusion than, say, shortcut taking on non-chipped races. Is that a whopping great bloke? Yes. Move them into the male rankings. They are free to participate - just not to cheat. Their delusion/dignity does not trump others dignity and right to fake competition.

Cheats can get in the bin. Full-stop. If that makes me an Ultra, so be it. I'm Ultra for fairness for me, my daughter and all women, specifically the old fashioned ones.

I think that's true but when those people moaning are cheats (e.g.males who say they're female) then their moans should be ignored.

We will have to disagree.. it is crystal clear to me that the principles quoted from the report are the salient points and should be applied.

I ran in a parkrun on Saturday and got the usual email with my age and sex ranking.

You can still go to the website and see everyone’s results, filter by age/sex categories and click on anyone’s name and see their past and current results, so not that much has changed.

I like comparing my results and find it motivating. But, I have no idea if the women who came ahead of me are actually men who registered as women or not. So despite all the uproar, nothing has really changed. Until parkrun exclude men from IDing as women it will still be unfair to women.

Good pick up pixie.

@Helleofabore, I also noticed on rewatching that we don't hear the question the people are asked. I doubt it was 'Are women entitled to fair sport?'

Do you also think then that a person who wishes to be considered younger or older than they are would get more benefit than the slight disappointment that someone in the correct age group so that is ok?

Do you also apply this for ability vs disability?

Are you that comfortable that someone who has a need to be considered as fitting into a category they materially are not eligible to participate in should be accommodated? Or just males who hold the belief they are female?

You understand sex categories exist for the protection of fairness and safety for women? Just as other categories such as age and disability?

And do you understand that women are not therapeutic devices for the use of males with specific needs?

But longines, it is the “Policy Exchange”! You know. Right wing! It means that some pure thinking people can ignore anything said because it wasn’t published or researched by the right kind of people.

Yes pixie, I can imagine many women runners would not agree to be filmed giving their true feelings. It could very well mean they will no longer be comfortable at that park run or they may be ostracised.

It really is not that fucking hard to understand why women don’t. However, I suspect that if a poster (not you Pixie) can dismiss violent acts against women that disagree with their point of view, or attempt to reduce those acts down to a comedy routine, then dismissing the negative ramifications of speaking on camera about negative feelings of male athletes being treated as female athletes is not surprising.

But even some women posting here aren't really interested in what's fair for women if it inconveniences some men. So you can see where parkrun are having the issue - women aren't a priority, even for a surprising number of women.

The issue isn't that Parkrun don't know what's fair to women. The Policy Exchange report called them out directly so there can be no doubt that they are aware of the impact on their decision on women and girls.

They know exactly what would be fair but have instead chosen to argue that Parkrun isn't sport and their famous barcodes are merely decorative as they would rather tie themselves in knots and risk losing their funding than tell the truth that biological sex matters in running.

I don't think the Sporting Bodies guidance could make it any more clear that the Parkrun decision is wrong and unfair to women.

I'll repeat the main points in case anyone missed them:

1. Categorisation within the sex binary is and remains the most useful and functional division relative to sporting performance.
2. This categorisation acknowledges the broad ranging and significant performance differences between the sexes. Hence, sports should retain sex categorisation, along with age and disability (and weight as appropriate) categories.
3. Evidence indicates it is fair and safe for transgender people to be included within the male category in most sports.
4. Competitive fairness cannot be reconciled with self-identification into the female category in gender- affected sport.

They have made it crystal clear that in sport the sex binary is more important than gender. Anything else is unfair to females.

You’re selectively quoting that article. It talks about blood testing, therapeutic use exemptions for medications, etc. People aren’t going to be doing those things for park run. Using asthma medication? Sorry, no park run for you. Not realistic for an activity like park run, and not what you want, since participation regardless of medical issues is prioritised over competition in park run.