Why is the parkrun decision wrong?

And some just want to save their own skin - Do it to Julia not realising that when it has been done to Julia they will be next on the list. If they think their submissiveness and bowing down to these men ensures that the men hold them in higher esteem than the women who don't they are in for a very rude awakening.

Yes. There have always been women who will make the best use they can of the power given to them and the head pats given to them by men, when they bully and abuse other women in the name of patriarchy. Some women enjoy power where they can get it. And some who were victims themselves, seek the experience of getting to be the abuser rather than the abused. Others have a sentimental beauty and the beast type thing about the love of a good woman, or the mummy feelz of nurturing men, and are genuinely baffled when it's pointed out how little they value women or themselves in doing this, and what internal values this is based on and where it came from. The Patient Griselda fairy story is useful reading.

Yep, women ran Magdalen laundries and inflicted terrible abuse on women and girls in support of their misogynistic religion so no reason to think human nature has had an overhaul.

Yes - I've been appalled at how many women have capitulated to the TWAW mantra and who are quite prepared to give up fairness for women for the sake of a very small minority of men. But I guess it was ever thus.

It's a good idea @literalviolence
Would you be up for suggesting this to parkrun via their contact form? I posted a link above.

maybe they need a female and an open category. Only actual women should be in female and anyone found cheating will have their results cancelled. TM, TW, other males and any female who cares more about validating males than their own comparative results being meaningful can run on the open category.

It never ceases to amaze me how far some women will abase themselves and expect other women to do so too in order to keep men happy.

It's just more be kind women, the men must be made happy nonsense. Marvellous, I sincerely hope that person does not claim to be a feminist.

There probably is a name for it. But really, it very simple flawed logic. That statement absolutely says that the male is more important than women. It is someone trying to either deny to themselves what the outcome of their position means, or trying to hide it with a false platitude.

"I'm not saying the trans woman is more important that other women just that the positive for her is greater than the negative for others.

As a woman, I would be happy to accept that my ranking might change. I accept that others might not. Obviously it is difficult to achieve a balance of everyone's needs."

My bold. I think there is a name for this as a political technique, where you state that you're not saying something, before going on to say exactly that thing.

Obviously it is difficult to achieve a balance of everyone's needs.

No it isn't. It should be very, very easy. Fairness for thousands of women and girls vs validation to a handful of men who want to be women but aren't (and who can, and always were able to, take part and run in the same race as the women anyway).

They get government grants and have paid executives.

Also: when women asked the organizers to classify by sex not gender Identity, women were told "it's just for fun". Now men can t preen about their results it isn't a fun run. It is Schrödinger's run where you don't know if it's fun or not until you check the results.

And I have read that invitations to join running clubs can be based on your Parkrun rankings. So that is very serious and useful if that is how you get into clubs.

I'd like to see a women only run set up. For women of female sex. But we know that won't happen.

As to trans men, difficult. If they take T they really ought not to run as woman. And in the spirit of Parkrun's attitude to women - meh, the displaced men can suck it up. Except I think if it puts men off, for whatever reason, that's shit too.

I'm sorry that you'll not be attending parkrun this weekend @Brefugee

I love parkrun and have considered not going but I'm nearly on 200 runs and am aiming for my 250th. I'm sick of people saying 'if you don't like what they're doing, then boycott it'. Why should women lose out, yet again, because the organisation is pandering to a very small minority?

Women fought to have their own events and to be able to compete (for those who haven't heard of Katherine Switzer or Bobbie Gibb, I suggest you look them up) and it feels as if we're having them taken away from us again. Some organisations are too cowardly to do the right thing.

Yeah. Frankly? Fuck. That. Shit.

I'm competitive. I used to be a pretty goof cross country runner at 5 and 10km. If I'm running in a timed run with lists and rankings? You bet I will be REALLY pissed off if I get placed behind a lying man.

I'm a veteran runner now - but will still try to a) beat my pb and b) beat anyone (in any class/age/sex) who is running to the finish at the same time as me. And in a general list I Donvt care. In a class list? The ones in front of me should honestly be in that category. And this is why I haven't got my runners with me even though this Saturday for the first time in yonks I'll be near a Parkrun.

I don't expect anyone to care.

But: anyone who says "it's not the winning, it's the taking part" is never going to understand. So they can can it, because it literally neither concerns nor "harms" them.

I think Woman that your post needs to be repeated.

Saying 'It's a free event' is rather missing the point that it is funded by grants from a public body. Saying 'it is a free event and if you women don't agree with how it is run, you should leave' is like declaring that any other service that is funded by a public body shouldn't listen to women's needs. And who the fuck would agree that that is appropriate behaviour?

I am a regular parkrunner and volunteer and have written to parkrun asking them to change their gender policy from self ID.

Their contact form is here if you want to send them a message too.

Submit a request – parkrun Support

And if women started their own event, as they have done with so many other activies/spaces/events, how long before men started to try encroaching on that too?

Apparently, you do according to some people. Yet, I also believe those are the same people who cheerlead male posters who are telling women what they should accept, what they should call themselves and what they should be allowed to say.

Of course women should care and be able to discuss what is happening at Parkrun without being part of it. Just like women should be able to care about women's refuges without having ever been in one or needed one, and the same with rape crisis centres and prisons.

That is, after all, feminism. Working for all female people collectively.

Also, I don't think you have to be a Park Run attendee, an athlete, a runner or even occasional jogger to care deeply that the messaging coming from the leadership of both public and private bodies is that men matter more than women, and that words don't have meaning. These are fundamental issues that are not localised to one small "fun run".

Park Run could have called it a fun run and kept the "competition against yourself" aspect that people enjoy by recording names and times only and sending a personalised email with your time. No leader board, no finishing position, no age or sex grading either published online or sent by email. They haven't done that though.

They can run, with their sex being the important factor.
Not identity
If they dont like it they can go find a competitive race instead of a local fun event.

This.

You are talking an awful lot about your wants there

You want your times sent to you
You want to compare yourself to how you did the week before
You want to try to beat your times

Yet when other women on here say what they want they get told they are being unreasonable...

Also, running a hard 5K effort and trying to beat your own and other people's time IS FUN! For a lot of people. Nothing about people doing that or being recorded doing that actually stops people who like an easy run, or a walk, and a chat and a cake having fun too. It's real dog in a manger stuff to take away something other people enjoy just cos you don't want it.

Parkrun HQ deciding that new runners are put off by evidence of the existence of faster runners is just plain infantalisation of the new runners.

I mean, if that was really why they've taken the records down... which it clearly isn't.

Why do trans identified people not like the "female" and "open" categories? It's not because it is 'outing', which is just more bollox. It's because it denies them the opportunity to get a little thrill at seeing their name with a "W" or "F" next to it.