GC Ultra / GC Lite?

So males with AGP don’t use the experiences of the day being treated as a female to heighten their sexual arousal?

@LoobiJee it is rightly a crime to do what you describe.

Firstly i dont know how you have drawn the conclusion that a a AGP person stores his experiences until he goes home

some paraphilias are not harmful to others because they are only in their own head.

Obviously peodophilia, pederasity and under age sexual interest is not acceptable.

I did not say that male needs should be met by us, our very existence meets the needs of what is in their head.

We have no control over that

So if a voyeur instals a hidden camera and then goes about his day, sexually unaroused, does that make it ok? He won’t be sexually aroused at the exact time the woman is being filmed. It’ll be later, when she’s no longer in that venue, when she’s safely back home nowhere near him and his boundary crossing paraphernalia. She won’t know anything about what he’s doing in private, later on, after he’s downloaded the footage. She won’t be physically anywhere near him at the time he’s sexually aroused by her image and by secretly crossing her boundaries. So is that ok?

What other paraphilias should we accommodate in society?

So you believe that because they store people‘s reactions to them in their memories, that that is ok? That we should accommodate them because they will delay the fulfillment of that arousal later ?

So all male arousal needs should be met because we cannot stop them ?

And again, what about when children are involved ?

Do you think he would have told you if he had? DH is trying to portray himself as harmless so he can continue to practice his fetish.

Grayson Perry was quite upfront about it.

@Helleofabore i took from DH book and actually other transexual males that i have had brief encounters with, both socially and professionally that they are not in a state of sexual arousal as they go about their day. On the other hand hetrosexual men do spend an awful lot of their day fantasising about having sex with you as they talk to you if they consider you attractive. I struggle to see the difference.

And your contribution to the “infighting” that will “fatally undermine” the GC movement is to demonstrate your support for the disparaging term “GC ultra” by posting and agreeing with AD’s article painting a group of women as “intolerant” “intimidating” and “sociopathic” for objecting to the use of “she” for males involved in erotic cross dressing?

You’re right about male entitlement / the patriarchy carrying on as usual.

Telling women they are wrong for spotting Labour’s single sex/safe spaces sleight of hand and for wanting the privacy and dignity of single sex female-only provision when they are in a state of undress IS the patriarchy.

Give the man his due, DH has managed to derail us from arguing for women's rights to arguing about fucking pronouns.

So you do think that a male who has stated clearly that they are an AGP and that paraphilia is stated clearly by others who are not seeking to sanitise their paraphilia, that being treated by anyone as if they are a woman is arousing or at least aids in that arousal, should be accommodated to continue to do so in public? Because men fantasize about women? So that is ok? Accommodating male arousal is ok?

Even when children treating a male with a paraphilia of being aroused by being treated as a woman is contributing to that arousal?

So there are no lines to be drawn in your opinion?

@Helleofabore men generally speaking do have sexually intrusive thoughts, from what i have read every three minutes.

They look us up and down. If decent try and evade looking at our breasts, or our bum if they are behind us, have sexual imagery as we walk away from them.

It is a fact of male sexuality. They are predatory by nature the whole sow as many seeds as they can sort of thing.

IMO it fits in with GC beliefs about men and women as mammals.

We cannot stop how thy think or dress we can only insist that they do not assault or hurt us.

Or make them our other children.

My husband is clear in his opinion, he says all men are potential rapists, its just a matter of self control.

So, just a little bit of non consensual use of others for paraphilia is ok? Where is the boundary for acceptable abuse and non-acceptable abuse? Has anyone come up with that answer?

Is it when a person doesn’t know that they have contributed to the sexual arousal? Or is it when a person has been forced due to societal norms or workplace/school policy to contribute to a male person’s arousal? Is there a description of what is acceptable usage of another person who doesn’t consent?

Infighting in the GC movement will fatally undermine us.
I do believe that. Feminist factions fight over pronouns/safe spaces, meanwhile men/patriarchy continue as usual

And I wonder why they're working so hard at it, and what the pay off is? From women. All these women. Reading the books and writing the articles and listening and understanding...

The suggestion I've seen is that with the recent shift in the Overton window, certain prominent GCs have seen the opportunity to get back into the fold and hence advance their careers, if they can now appear suitably moderate and accommodating.

Hi @Datun yes i do because he has an awful lot of insight into himself and who he is.

In his book it is very much about the dangers of the internet and children’s susceptibility to gender ideology. He uses his own experience of being sucked in to the ideas of being wrong bodied to portray that and dedicates a chapter to the risk to children.

I don't really understand what some people want here. We cannot get rid of transexualism or insist it stays at home, what muddies the waters is TRA’s and gender ideology, and the massive loophole that they create for perverted predatory behaviour, thats what we kick back at.

Yes frood. The acceptance of a sanitised version of this paraphilia, any paraphilia, is really quite concerning. The end goal is normalisation.

Which will be the next paraphilia to be this treatment ?

Exactly who benefits? All who benefit?

And I wonder why they're working so hard at it, and what the pay off is? From women. All these women. Reading the books and writing the articles and listening and understanding...

It's not as if men haven't written articles themselves, given the interviews and talked right here on MN and explained, sometimes unintentionally, what it's all about. If in doubt ask Tinsel or one of the other women who have lived with a partner and this fetish: they have very few illusions. Read up on sex addiction and look at the cross overs in behaviours. Taking it all at face value is probably not a great idea.

Are we now going to have the argument that ‘good’ AGP males with a paraphilia (at least one) should be accommodated with pronouns and access to a supply of being treated as a female person, and ‘bad’ AGP males with a paraphilia (at least one) are just a few ‘bad eggs’.

What a great PR job these male people are doing!

I read Julia Serano's book, 'Whipping Girl'. Serano writes that there is an erotic charge to identifying as a woman, and it's a masochistic one. Serano first began identifying as female at about eleven, standing in front of a mirror with a towel around the head. Serano denies being an AGP.

Karensalright

So having read the book, Karen, do you think it's okay for him to teach children dressed as a woman?

And should they be calling him Miss?

Does it seem less sexual than you originally thought, and therefore okay in that setting?

Yep.

Yep.

AGP is described as a love of oneself as a female, it is not about parading around in a dress with a hard on or sexually excited state, at least not for Hayton.

So not like a beachball that you are incapable of keeping under the sea, it's just loving yourself, not something so overwhelming you'd leave your whole family to pursue it, it's just loving yourself, not a fetish that is fed by by humiliation and sissy porn it's just loving yourself.

lol.

the type I would term "GC Ultra"

You’re deploying the tired old “you’re wrong! “Karen” isn’t a misogynistic term of abuse designed to silence women and put them in their place! oh no! it’s just a handy, factually accurate, description of those nasty women over here…” argument.

But there’s certainly room for a discussion about which of these risk “the cause” being “fatally undermined”…

Does a) saying “I disagree with using ‘she’ for a male person” fatally undermine the cause?

Or does b) coining a term like “GC ultra” and using your profile and platform in the MSM to describe the women who don’t agree with you as “extremists” fatally undermine ‘the cause’?

On a side note, I’d have thought that arguing that/believing that “language can shape reality” was more a feature of the gender identity theory camp (hence TWAW) than the GC side of the argument. Whilst those concerned with safeguarding point out that “pronouns are rohypnol”.

Also, interesting to see accusations of a desire for individuals to be publicly shamed and alienated. I’m aware of KJK being on the receiving end of those sorts of manoeuvres from the group that’s been referred to on here as head girls / gentry left. But the camp that is really into shaming and alienating their targets are the gender identity campaigners.

Has anyone here actually read his book? It would be really useful to debate a book and the person it is about with people who have actually read his book.

@WarriorN Don't agree with that commentary at all, firstly he was not fishing tights out at three it was more like five or six. I personally suspect that his memories at that age are skewed as are all of our childhood memories.

The book does not promote transition at all he clearly states that but for the internet he would not have got sucked in to it.

Secondly he states that the existence of reassignment surgery was in itself a draw and became an obsession, that drew him to it. Like a bug to a light.

But for the fact he could have it on the NHS he would not have gone there.

Thirdly he sought help, i checked he does not mention conversion therapy, his religious community were supportive.

I cannot get exorcised about teenagers wanking of over women's clothes.

The author of that post does not mention that he realised that he had some wiring issue, he was in love with his idealised self as a woman, he did not have an external affair he was the other woman.