TERFs and the Irish referendum

But marriage is the foundation of families. Single parents may be divorced or widowed, they are just as much families, it needs no extra recognition.

Largest no vote ever!

Family one defeated 67 per cent to 32 per cent, Care one defeated by over 70 per cent to twenty something percent.

Both referendums defeated massively 😁

The thing is, I think rather than vaguely hand wave some poorly defined term in ('Durable Relationship') we need to be educating (mainly) women on why they should be insisting on marriage before kids, and why they need to take being a SAHM and doing all this unpaid care at the expense of their pension and earnings a lot more seriously than many do right now. (admittedly, a do as I say, not as I do - I was never married, but then I never gave up work to be a SAHM, even though I did do the lions share - which - incidentally- is why I want to keep the explicit call out to mothers, because we still do do the majority of the unpaid care.)

ANYWAY.

If yes goes through, that's any thought of another relationship out of the window for me, I can't risk another access battle for my kids, or the resources I have to look after them.

Yes. It's a really archaic wording, it's ridiculous in 2024 there's even a debate on changing the phrasing. The words we use matter

I'd worry about those who already have to have a long-term relationship with someone they don't like due to a shared child. It surely would be durable in a court of law. Durable doesn't mean good.

Good point @miri1985 . Either marriage/ civil partnership matters or it doesn't. Again , many of my friends are cohabiting and have kids. The present wording of the constitution has had no effect on their status as families or any benefits thereof.

Single parents who feel that historically they have been treated badly by the state, and more importantly on a personal level, by family and former friends, and who feel that they would like some recognition in the constitution are the one group I have felt some sympathy for. I also feel that that is not in any way an argument for voting yes on either of the proposals in this referendum.

fair enough - the distress of some single parents who have been given air time by RTE to explain that they feel excluded . . . .

I think RTE are being encouraged to find hard cases to push for a yes vote, and that is one aspect they have played up.

I'm a single parent. I feel no distress (especially since I'm a mother).

Besides which, we're already protected, as long as you do take some sensible steps anyway. When I (unmarried) split with my children's dad, I had to go through a very similar process to divorce - listing out our assets/expenses and splitting the property we jointly owned and negotiating child maintenance and access. No need for durable relationships (which to me sounds like it's going to cause a lot of trouble for separated parents), or removing the word 'Mother'

The distress of single parents who feel that they are being excluded from the 'family' description by the mention of marriage might have been alleviated by changing the wording from marriage as THE foundation of families to marriage as A foundation of families.

I think it costs about €200 to notify the notify the marriage. I think the 20 million being spent on this referendum would have been much better put towards getting rid of that fee or even if marriage is too loaded a term for some people, lets bring back civil partnerships.

I agree its ridiculous when people want to be in a constitutionally defined family there is no stopping them. Someone I know said that we were told so often during the marriage ref about the importance of marriage and now we're being told it doesn't matter at all and its the same as getting a christmas card with someone.

Do they consider the people who choose not to get married specifically because they do not want to end up with caring responsibilities for their partner's dependents?

What's really interesting in reading the people looking for a yes vote is that many of them are doing so on the basis that it will make a family with unmarried parents constitutionally defined as a family. That's fine, as far as it goes, but I don't really get why people think they're a victim of their own decision not to get married if they want to be in a constitutionally defined family? There's no mystery around it. It doesn't happen by sheer luck to some people? Options open to get yourself down to the registry office, folks. You are allowed.

Cork city yesterday. Lots of posters. All Yes. I'm afraid it will be carried with a low turnout.

I'll just vote Níl , Nein, Non , Nyet. No and No.

There were 4 people in my local village yesterday standing either side of the road towards the traffic with banners asking us to protect families by voting yes. I couldn't see who they were representing. That bit was obviously in very small writing.

RTE's woes are a massive and I suspect very welcome distraction atm.

Yes. I'm sure the paucity of discussion is because they don't want to broadcast any more 'No' arguments than they are forced to by law. When they have to, they make sure to use men, or people they have already type cast as 'right wing' or even worse 'religious'.

I wonder whether it's because both sides of a referendum have to be represented and that's not a comfortable thing right now, in case people go off script and start talking about whatever they think might be behind it? Or is it possible that the IT poll is right and once people know what this is, they don't want it? I don't think RTE is up to much other than reporting on their own woes right now (feels like 3/4 of Morning Ireland is RTE reporting on RTE these days).

I agree miri. Those of us who are looking out for it see the discussions such as they are, but compared with previous referendums it's all very quiet and I am sure a lot of people don't know when it is on. I haven't seen a poster anywhere.

I still haven't received that booklet myself, I've gotten my voting card but this person hadn't and doesn't seem to be the only one who had received neither.

It was an older person so no SM but watches the news daily where there has been little to no discussion of the referendum

I haven't received one yet. We also haven't received polling cards yet.

That's odd, miri1985, because we've all received booklets from the Electoral Commission, with 'Friday 8 March - Referendums on Family and Care' in large letters on the front cover, and in Irish as well. The well-informed person you were chatting with must not read their post. Or listen to the radio. Or use SM. Or read newspapers, if they remain unaware of the date of referendums. (Yes, that's the accepted plural☺)

Genuinely think a lot of people are so unaware about this referendum, was chatting with someone about RTE and the Catherine Martin mess, this person was very politically aware and corrected me about when the media committee would be meeting to discuss it. She mentioned an event on the 9th that she would have to travel for the day beforehand and I said "oh are you waiting to leave on the 8th so you'll be able to vote in the referendum" and she hadn't even twigged that was the date it was happening on.

There aren't that many posters up around my town and unless you knew what they were referring to, I think you'd be none the wiser. I don't think most of them even have the date of the referendum on them

Look at last election, FG were third with seats. LG made history as first sitting Taoiseach not to voted in first count.

Young people are fed up, life in Ireland is expensive and all divisive figures have to do is tap into that.

Stick to the government message and many will listen.