Did anyone watch Stella O'Malley's critique of GC feminists on YouTube?

This is the core issue I think.

Most people can not deal with social media and do not understand how it works.

Everyone wants to join in a conversation at the same time and when loads of people disagree with you, people experience it as a "pile on".

Weird people never feel "piled on" when they have 200 people agreeing with them.

It's not a pile on. They aren't being threatened. There is a disagreement on social media. That is it. I know it feels awful because our dino brains can't deal with so many people at once, but nothing is happening really.

You want to be a big shot on the internet than take criticism as you take the compliments and get on with your life.

I agree. I found out about this whole issue from Mumsnet. Without Mumsnet, I’d have probably been one of those lefties vaguely mouthing TWAW because I thought I should, without really understanding what it meant or what the issues were. I now do what I can within my work and women’s group to combat GI.
Mumsnet is a great source of info on this.

I think though cats, that you might have had a point as to the origin of the issue.

After observing this rumble on and with some reflection, I think that many people are now hurt and very angry and failing to be their best selves on both "teams" so I'll withdraw my previous comment and not add fuel to the very unpleasant fire of what is now going on.

That's unreasonably harsh. Those "big accounts" publicly stuck their necks out on this issue long before it had any traction. Of KJK herself disagrees with their stances that's one thing, but when an army of safely anonymous Posy fans pile onto them for not being Posy enough that's quite another.

I have been following the blow up, and the impression I get is that there are some big accounts who have very big egos. They perceive any disagreement, of opinions they've expressed in the public arena of X, as an attempt to shut them down rather than hold a debate. Plus the accusations against women of homophobia on the basis of one or two bad actors.

We have to speak about safeguarding concern. Call it creating rifts or stopping free speech if you want, but it needs to be said.

Arguing amongst ourselves is never a way forward

I agree. Discussing is always helpful but not in this way.

I think people are underestimating the power of BigPharma and believe that the time has come when we can fall out with each other over differences.

Personally I'm in this for the rights of women and children. We need to discuss theory, but not throw each other under the bus. I have issues with some GC feminists but it is not helpful to create rifts.

Well if you get sexual feelings around children then no, you shouldn't be a teacher, and if you get sexual feelings from being called 'she/her' or wearing a dress to school as a teacher then you shouldn't involve the children you are teaching and supposed to safeguard as unwilling participants in your fetish.

Anyone who is defending normalising this is also on very shaky safeguarding ground.

Pretty much all the women I know can tell the difference between men with a fetish and those who are gender non conforming. Aja nails it https://twitter.com/Aja02537920/status/1727745772970471686

The men on the bottom line, if teachers, would be really clear to do what's best for the children, I'm sure, even if that meant slightly modifying the way they dress. MOST teachers do this, they don't come to work in pyjamas for example whilst expecting the kids to wear school uniform.

The very fact of putting your wants (non-normal pronouns) above the children's needs (ability to recognise sex without censure, freedom of belief and expression, developing understanding of English, lack of confusion that pronouns are suddenly an individual thing) is a safeguarding red flag. Stella deals with children right?

She seemingly can't grasp basic safeguarding principles and she can fuck off with her condescension when she's failing to grasp something so basic that most women instinctively understand.

What on Earth is she thinking? This is shocking and upsetting. I cannot comprehend how anyone could conflate a masculine lesbian to a paraphilia such as DH tells us all about. Lesbianism is not a fetish or a compulsion. Why in gods name are we letting these people detract us from our support of women by denigrating our sisters and putting the almighty penis first. I’ve tried very very hard to really understand where Stella and others are coming from. I’ve given up now. I will not be supporting any of these people with my subscriptions, views or my money. I’m not an “Ultra”, I’m not an extremist, I am a woman without a platform and I won’t be supporting them to monetise women’s struggles.

She edited her post to make another slight towards Kellie-Jay and any woman that supports her. This was not in the heat of the moment. She actually thought about it and added it.

She mentioned she was a misogynist in her childhood but I feel like she might not have grown out of it as much as she thinks.

I find as it was left unbacked up, that it lacked qualification and can be all too easily interpreted different ways.

Because in listening to lesbians,
their ‘presentation, is about many other aspects of life (including one close to my own heart, comfort!) and not about dressing for a ‘sexual charge’. Leaving it open the way Stella has, means it really can be said to be homophobic. And making something very rare into a general descriptor.

No. I don’t believe the two scenarios men cross dressing and lesbians presenting as men are generally comparable. I would think the over lap is very small and she should back this with data now because she has put it out there. Also that those female who are supposedly AGP act in the same ways that male AGPs do. To the point where the public are involved in non consensual sex acts when they interact with those women.

Yet Stella is using it as a dismissive direct comparison for what we should do about safeguarding vulnerable people from sex fetishists. That is wrong from someone who is in a position of expertise as she is, imo.

From Genspect website: "Our international organisation includes professionals, trans people, detransitioners, and parent groups who work together to advocate for a non-medicalised approach to gender diversity."

It's a good aim, but is it GC?

To help individual children, the best action isnt to say 'theres no such thing as GI, find a hobby', it is to use their language, listen and use therapy to help them without surgery and medicine.

But thats private, individual therapy, not part of a GC movement. If we accept someone can be trans, how is that critical of gender? What makes someone trans if it not gender?

Stellas work is important, but so is standing up to the invention of a special class of men with gender. By critising women for doing this, she isnt being gender critical herself.

Perhaps you'd have got more from it if you hadn't watched nearly four hours of footage in under 40 minutes.

Arguing amongst ourselves is never a way forward.

I find debate really helpful for clarifying my thoughts. What a shame, after all those years of #NoDebate, to see it denigrated as 'arguing amongst ourselves.'

We know our shared GC goals lets stick to that.

Do 'we'? Genspect's goal appears to be to normalise AGP. No thank you.

I am sick of the forced teaming that is 'The GC Movement™' I'm here for child safeguarding and women's rights. That's it. All the pseudosexologists and the men's tights activists with their nasty little sobstacks can fuck right off. I am done with the lot of them.

stella wouldn’t be in such hot water if she had quoted evidence that butch women are butch for sexual thrills.

personally, that’s one of the most offensive things I’ve heard in this and I’ve been around a while.

I haven't watched all of it, but something just struck me. 'Terfs' were really brutally dehumanised and threatened by the TRAs. It was normal for TRAs to talk about punching and killing, even raping the women they called 'terfs'. But although they obviously don't like GC people, they don't talk about them with the same level of violent hatred. I think this is because 'terfs', radical feminists, were by definition women, and also women of the left who TRAs expected to support them. 'Gender critical ' covers a much broader group including men and conservatives. And the TRA hate them less. There's less aggression and more whiny victim mentality.

Are you saying it's "extremist" of lesbians to correct Stella O'Malley's claim that they find wearing masculine fashions arousing?

I don't think it is extremist at all.

Well i watched “live react to Stella” video and had no actual clue what she was on about, but i guess that might be because i cannot relate to an extremist lesbian position that i do not share. She has a right to her views though. Arguing amongst ourselves is never a way forward.

We know our shared GC goals lets stick to that.

Stella caused a blow up on Irish GC Twitter today by stating butch lesbian dress & behaviour gives lesbians a sexual charge akin to AGPs when they wear female clothing 🙄🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Irish lesbians took umbrage and of course, Graham Linehan got involved to defend Hayton and Stella, so now GC campaigner Iseult White has had to lock down her account. From what I can see, lesbians in the UK aren’t massively happy with Stella either.

I dunno what causes Stella to keep digging rather than engage with people but that’s what she does 🤷‍♀️

Found some of the relevant info on Duncan Henry’s account for those interested:

https://x.com/DuncanHenry78/status/1756287390069510188?s=20

'Stella O'Malley 12:01 pm • 10 Feb 2024

I'm horrified that Iseult White, a fellow therapist, who has been working with detransitioners as part of Genspect's Beyond Trans project, would decide to go to the trouble of making a clip of me speaking in the middle of a sentence. This extremely unprofessional, unethical and sly action removes all context about what I was trying to say.

I was talking about why I believe men and women should be free to wear what they want, within the limits of decency.

Sex is weird. We all get sexual charges in random ways. What's wrong with some lesbians getting a charge out of wearing a strap-on or wearing certain clothes? I've no problem with that. It's pretty lesbophobic imo to suggest that lesbians aren't allowed to have these sexual feelings. (And yes, of course not all lesbians ).

Are we now not allowed to have any sexual feelings ever? About anything?'

She 'addressed' it in the video by saying it's her who understands safeguarding and everyone else has it wrong including safeguarding orgs. I think she meant Safe Schools Alliance. She said those who raised safeguarding issues publicly weren't following proper guidelines of proportional response.

This is absolute rubbish. The proportional response guidelines mean you shouldn't overprotect children or vulnerable adults to the point where it interferes with their development or human rights (e.g. never allowing kids outside or insisting on residential care when a less restrictive care package would be adequately safe.)

To follow her reasoning, if a child or parent made a very loud disclosure of abuse in the playground at hometime it shouldn't be followed up because the correct procedure was not followed. She doesn't get that the procedure is for her / her org to follow, not for the public, and she doesn't understand what it means anyway.

It was very obvious after the debacle with the Blanchard video that she had no clue and had googled and misinterpreted basic safeguarding principles. She appears to have stopped reading as soon as she found what she thought was a gotcha.

Benji has done a reaction video (it's very long and won't be up long), I had forgotten it was her that Stella bellowed 'How DARE you!' at in that twitter space:

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo Sorry i have not noticed that Stella thought we ought to lie to children about peoples biological sex, if she has said that i would agree with you.

I am of the view that it is best not to lose one’s small children in the first place. I know no mother who has lost her small child, including myself.

I totally believe that children recognise sex straight away, it is a human trait, so advising a child to look for a woman is not problematic since Hayton to my mind looks like a man.

Although frankly i have no clue what any of this has to do with Stella. Could you perhaps direct me to things she has said, so that i may have a better understanding.

Thanks in anticipation

No. I meant exactly what i said.

Lots of people, who do know better, are pretending that there is no safeguarding issues with lying to children about the sex of men.

We are parents on this site, we know that we tell our small children that if they are lost to ask help from a woman. If we also tell children that women can look like Hayton, how can we be sure that they will ask for help from a women?

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo i think you mean if everybody agreed with you, and accept you have no flaws …. There would be no division.

I’m so fed up with the attacks on Stella and the divisions that people are trying to create.

Stella’s done some amazing things. Shockingly, she hasn’t been perfect and got everything right and covered all the bases, first time. That’s because she’s getting stuff done.

pronouns aren’t a safeguarding issue. That’s ridiculous.

Stella and others are ignoring a key point to the push back they are recieving from lessers.

Promoting AGP men and pronouns are all saftguarding concerns. They have been told this often enough, but choose to frame it as purity spirals and free speech issues.

If stella and others would address the safeguarding concerns head on, let everyone know that they understand, lots of this division would disappear.