Andrew Doyle

We are heading for a free speech solution - people are free to call men 'she' or 'he'.

That seems fine as long as we pretend that the orginal problem was prefered pronouns and not men with fetishes.

Great job, lads.

Someone sent me a thing once called things men fuck, or something like that.

Honest to God, once you've read that, nothing would surprise you about men's sex drive and the lengths they will go to to satisfy it.

The other reason why I think this particular incident has got so many women up in arms is because it's Debbie Hayton. He's gone out of his way to sanitise the fetish.

If Janice Turner was interviewing some cheaply bewigged, middle-aged chap in fishnets and garters like, say, that Freda person who got drunk and flashed their crotch next to Helen Joyce on the telly, would she still feel the need to respect pronouns?

This isn't a cult.

It isn't? Well, I'm disappointed. I've been practising my chants and everything.

What did you mean when you said "a crap way to treat people who have been good to you."

Speaking up about something he believes in isnt Doyle being good to anyone.

An excellent choice, if I may say so.

The only other one I might pick would be washing up. And at least it has the benefit of keeping my hands clean...

I think some of the gay men who are GC came into it as a men's sexual rights issue- ie they became concerned when it looked like they were going to have larping females in their spaces and be pressured to consider them as sexual partners. I recall that guy who said on Twitter that women should raise awareness of the problem by wandering around topless in gay (male) saunas, presumably not caring that's it's not much safer for women to anger gay men than it is for them to anger straight men.

The gay men who have this motivation are the ones who get angry when the feminist agenda gets a bit too close to home- ie criticism of drag, fetishes, "twink" culture or their cross dressing friends (I'm looking at you, Lachlan), and start crying homophobia.

NAGMALT of course. For some it the conversion therapy aspect of transing gay kids and for (less) others it's about women's rights.

Gay men and feminists were always only going to have certain common interests.

please don't minimise something that sends a chill down my spine!
I have a teenage daughter- I will damn well "get my knickers in a twist" over any compromise towards fetishistic and misguided men
well-meaning people are opening the door to men like DH- it's both infuriating and terrifying

OOO, I didn't know there was one for that! Can I have it?

Actually, scratch that - can the people I live with have it?

Don't be daft. Language in the law is crucial and must be crystal clear.

The stupid GRA and its "legal fiction" of changing legal sex is a disaster and should be repealed. Single sex services and spaces are crucial for women, and no one should have her reality denied. (See also the shit-show at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre)

That's completely different to policing how individuals refer to others in the third person.

Plenty of absolute GC heroes (including Maya and Janice) have said they use prefered pronouns in their jobs. I maintain that's their choice and I can respectfully disagree; admiring and appreciating them doesn't mean I support and endorse every decision they have or will make.

This isn't a cult.

I do think Datun is right about women finding it hard to grasp the whole sexual thrill thing of AGP. I do find it almost impossible to actually believe someone gets a sexual thrill out of being referred to as the opposite sex, because it's such a monumentally stupid thing to get a frisson about. Some blokes are so bloody weird it beggars belief.

Nobody has that fetish or women wouldn't be so worn down everywhere you look :- (

Which one do you fancy? I'm thinking one to do with cleaning so it makes housework more enjoyable.

I thought he was speaking out because he believed it, not because of a favour to women?

I do wonder if allowing the term AGP to be used is because of free speech, or that AGP has become an acceptable, sanitised concept.

Maybe lots of pragmatics think of it is just liking yourself a bit too much, rather the idea its a fetish?

I don't know why he did it.

Could it simply have been a pragmatic decision based on past Ofcom investigations into GBNews? If he uses 'she' pronouns he does not trigger complaints from TRAs about his show?

Just a guess since generally AD is very clued up.

While I'm speculating as to how much Janice Turner does or doesn't know about AGP, I think I should point out that, until fairly recently, you would be deleted from here immediately, even for mentioning it.

and is a crap way to treat people who have been good to you.

Eh? Hows he been good to us?

Nobody is above questioning their understanding of safeguarding.

A lot of women really can't quite bring himself to accept that this might just all be about sex.

I think there's some truth in that. Women don't tend to be frequent flyers through Malaga airport in the way that men do, nor do we tend to have the same compulsion to arrange our lives and relationships around the visits to that inauspicious place to nearly the same extent. It is a completely different worldview and I don't think women like to think about it very much.

I wish they hadn't it would have been very powerful.

well that's something we can agree on!

I don't see why anyone gets their knickers in a knot over other peo-ple's language choices.

So you have no problem with ERCC telling rape victims that they all their staff are women and they will be seen by a woman, when they know full well that they may well find a man in front of them?

Honestly, I've said the words sexual fetish so much over the last couple of days that I feel like I'm almost in danger of acquiring one through osmosis.