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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Uses the pronoun "judy"

96 replies

RachelGreensHair · 05/02/2024 17:11

Never seen this one before! Anyone else want to use it?
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/feb/05/desperate-housewives-felicity-huffman-comeback-jail-hir

Uses the pronoun "judy"
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LilyBartsHatShop · 07/02/2024 09:16

He's a marvellous performance artist, I've seen a couple of his shows. Tears both of joy and of the wonder of human frailty.
I remember when he made the judy pronoun declaration (ten or 15 years ago). I couldn't work out what he was trying to say or do. I've heard both gender critical and gender woo types refer approvingly to it. Maybe that's what makes it art and not wankery? But I'm really not sure.

HoneyButterPopcorn · 06/02/2024 22:20

Reminds me of Seinfeld when a visitor is made to believe that calling everyone ‘this bastard/that bastard/little bastard’ was a friendly term of endearment.

Moodicum · 06/02/2024 21:58

I’m gonna use Judge Judy as a pronoun.

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 21:51

Actual footage of me looking for my gender identity

Joke Grandma GIF by Storyful
SamuelDJackson · 06/02/2024 21:33

.

Monty Python Swing Dance GIF
WomanHereWomanHere · 06/02/2024 21:25

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 21:23

Maybe it's something one can only answer using the medium of dance?

Perhaps we could identify ourselves through the walk we use on a given day, or one for each mood?

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 21:23

Maybe it's something one can only answer using the medium of dance?

New Girl Dancing GIF by Global TV
popebishop · 06/02/2024 21:19

a personal internal perception of oneself

So it's yourself, but nothing to do with your body, your personality traits, preferences, skills, behaviours etc.

Must be quite specific to not come under any of those descriptions - I'm intrigued! What bit of oneself do you understand it to mean?

PaperDoIIs · 06/02/2024 20:46

Doe that mean a pronoun could be princess consuela bananahammock?

Asking for a friend.Grin

Waitingfordoggo · 06/02/2024 20:44

DadJoke · 05/02/2024 18:48

He's fine with he. He's doing a performance bit.

Is ‘doing a performance bit’ what used to be known as ‘attention seeking’?

Emotionalsupportviper · 06/02/2024 20:22

Fenlandia · 05/02/2024 18:48

My pronouns are ampersand/hyphen

Mine are

kush/ mir in/ tochas

ExpectantAsshole · 06/02/2024 20:16

I’ve decided that in place of pronouns I’m going to use this prick /that prick* instead. That prick wants me to use stupid made up language to feed that prick’s main character syndrome.

*Please note “prick” does not in any way imply anything about that prick’s actual genitalia. You may substitute “twat” if you prefer.

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 19:33

Lemonlemonlemonapple · 06/02/2024 16:00

I’m not looking things up on the internet for you. If you don’t know what internal perception is you can google it yourself. I’m busy contemplating how confusing and surreal I could make my pronouns, lol 😂

It's okay if you can't answer. I just think it's a bit odd to correct someone when you're unable to actually elucidate your thinking.

WomanHereWomanHere · 06/02/2024 19:19

SamuelDJackson · 06/02/2024 15:51

...

It’s the end of the Derek as we know it.

Lemonlemonlemonapple · 06/02/2024 16:00

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 15:55

I can read it, but I'd like to hear your explanation, seeing as you've stated:

'Gender identity, in the sense the cass report is talking about, isn’t personality traits, preferences, skills and behaviours.'

What does a 'personal internal perception of oneself' actually mean if it's not 'personality traits'?

I’m not looking things up on the internet for you. If you don’t know what internal perception is you can google it yourself. I’m busy contemplating how confusing and surreal I could make my pronouns, lol 😂

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 15:55

Lemonlemonlemonapple · 06/02/2024 15:49

That’s a quote from the interim cass report; you can read it yourself if you want.

I was actually wanting to say, I was thinking earlier that just having “Judy” as a pronoun is too conservative. What about, instead of she/her/her’s, Tom / Jerry / Bug’s Bunny’s. I feel like that would be more entertaining; it would definitely keep people on their toes, lol.

I can read it, but I'd like to hear your explanation, seeing as you've stated:

'Gender identity, in the sense the cass report is talking about, isn’t personality traits, preferences, skills and behaviours.'

What does a 'personal internal perception of oneself' actually mean if it's not 'personality traits'?

SamuelDJackson · 06/02/2024 15:51

...

season 2 nbc GIF by The Good Place
Lemonlemonlemonapple · 06/02/2024 15:49

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 15:44

“a personal internal perception of oneself”

Wow. What's that, then? Can you describe it?

That’s a quote from the interim cass report; you can read it yourself if you want.

I was actually wanting to say, I was thinking earlier that just having “Judy” as a pronoun is too conservative. What about, instead of she/her/her’s, Tom / Jerry / Bug’s Bunny’s. I feel like that would be more entertaining; it would definitely keep people on their toes, lol.

WomanHereWomanHere · 06/02/2024 15:46

Boiledbeetle · 05/02/2024 17:32

Well that's extra special!

The world’s pronoun now is actually Derek.

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2024 15:44

“a personal internal perception of oneself”

Wow. What's that, then? Can you describe it?

Lemonlemonlemonapple · 06/02/2024 15:39

popebishop · 06/02/2024 12:54

Gender as it's generally understood is not just personality/any personal attribute.

Yes, I did say when talking in terms of gender identity. "Feminine" etc can refer to clothes and bodies, but as gender identity it tends to be talking about people's personality traits, preferences, skills, behaviours etc. But I appreciate your post.

It's the constant unthinking conflation with "feminine" (culturally) and "female" (biologically) that is so common. (And same for masculine/male).

gender identity it tends to be talking about people's personality traits, preferences, skills, behaviours etc.

It means that in some contexts, but in the context of trans people it means (from the interim cass report) “a personal internal perception of oneself”, which isn’t the same thing. I don’t know why people on here mix this up so much. Gender identity, in the sense the cass report is talking about, isn’t personality traits, preferences, skills and behaviours.

popebishop · 06/02/2024 12:54

Gender as it's generally understood is not just personality/any personal attribute.

Yes, I did say when talking in terms of gender identity. "Feminine" etc can refer to clothes and bodies, but as gender identity it tends to be talking about people's personality traits, preferences, skills, behaviours etc. But I appreciate your post.

It's the constant unthinking conflation with "feminine" (culturally) and "female" (biologically) that is so common. (And same for masculine/male).

easylikeasundaymorn · 06/02/2024 12:43

To be fair the whole article is a hoot - the constant reference to "We move on again" whenever anything vaguely controversial comes up and the part where Huffman has to square her part in this very trans-positive play with her "stealing" the lead role in transamerica from an actual trans person (she "doesn't remember this 🤣)

Also the fact that Huffman suggests the prime of miss jean brodie as an example of a naice, non-controversial genteel play that she could have chosen to do instead of this one (while admitting she hasn't been offered much after the scandal which explains "hir") tends to suggest she doesn't know wtf she's talking about seeing as one of the key plots is a teacher sending her underage student to seduce her own ex-lover, among others. Albeit I don't think Maggie Smith ever had to discuss how to use a straw to snort crystal meth up her arse so I suppose on the scale of what you want to be remembered for as an actor, there's that....

MrsWhattery · 06/02/2024 12:30

I know the argument you'rre making popebishop, have been on the feminist boards for years and a feminist for longer. But I don't entirely agree.

Gender as it's generally understood is not just personality/any personal attribute. It can mean sex, or it can mean cultural behaviours thatare linked to or associated with sex. I am entirely opposed to restrictive and damaging gender stereotypes, and I'm opposed to gender ideology that implies that a gender stereotype you want to enact determines your sex. That's nonsense.

But, having thought about it a lot I do think gender plays a role in society and not necessarily an unhealthy one. It should be no surprise in such a cultural species that cultural norms and behaviours are attached to the sexes, and to some degree grow out of or are based on them. (For example in clothing, "feminine" clothing tends to emphasise or exaggerate the female body, and the same for masculine clothing.)

We can use gender to indicate or hide our sex and how we relate to gender roles - do we embrace them, play with them, reject them or feel free to pick and choose from everything? In the 80s days of gender-bending, gender wasn't rejected outright or abolished - it was subverted, challenged and distorted but it was still being used to say somethig about how we feel about being the sex we are.

In my own life I reserve the right to dress in a feminine way if I want - because I'm feeling like I want to look female - or in a masculine or neutral way but when i do that I am making use of gender norms. The alternative is to have npthing gendered at all - I don't think that's realistic because humans will always associate some cultural things to some material relaities. And also I genuinely don't think most peple would like it.

When it's damaging is when it restricts. A situation where it's not OK to break out of or just ignore a gender stereotype - no. A situation where the gender roles, norms or stereotypes restrict or harm women (or indeed men, as they do) - no. But that doesn't mean gender as cultural expression has to be bad in itself. Just as we have cultural expressions linked to other aspects of being human (age, ethnicity, local area etc).

NotBadConsidering · 06/02/2024 12:23

Beowulfa · 06/02/2024 11:40

That actress sounds like a nasty piece of work, the playwright a tedious wanker, and the play hard work.

Think I'll stay in and watch some repeats of Murder She Wrote instead.

Murder Zhe Wrote.

Netflix’s bold new reboot about Neo, a budding young mystery writer hoping to be the next Juno Dawson who, while researching zher next book, helps the authorities solve crime by identifying those who have committed Wrong Think.