Why is Mumsnet so GC?

Kudos to MNHQ for allowing debate, they took a lot of heat.

But as for why here, I think the MN tradition of robust debate (aka AIBU bunfights) set a tradition and an approach that allowed Mods to hold the line that disagreement is ok, and shouldn’t be shut down on the basis that we should all be nice.

Elsewhere, being upset by someone’s post was reason to delete it. Here, it was more ‘either put your big girl pants on or walk away if this is too upsetting’.

I know MN have had a lot of flack over the years but I think GC views could take root here and it be a place for women to find solidarity precisely because it was Mumsnet. Activism and discussion flew under the radar for a while because people assumed it was just a bunch of mummies talking about potty training and mastitis and we couldn’t possibly be being subversive and radical. They assumed wrong

In my experience 'gc' views are the views of the huge but largely silent majority.

GC Feminist views are not the majority. Most people know that humans have two sexes but being critical of gender means something specific.

The opposite of radical Feminism is not intersectionality. Intersectionality is just about considering how different axes of oppression can interact.

Some people use the term intersectional Feminism to give weight to their idea that Feminism should not be about women's rights.

The opposite of radical Feminism is liberal Feminism. That is not to say that many libfems are not critical of gender too but generally its more vulnerable to Genderism because of it's emphasis on working with society and the fact that it's more palatable to those in power.

I agree that an intersectional lens can be helpful to feminism when looking at the layers of oppression a woman may experience that include poverty, race , religion, education etc. I don't see Rad feminism being in opposition to intersectional feminism. Both focus on helping women, IME.

That.

Radfem may not work very well with libfem ideas. But it certainly can and does include intersectional ideas. In my experience - I'm not an academic or very well versed in feminist history/theory etc.

Anyway. Why are we all gc here? It's a woman-owned, women-led, women-focussed site. Which is very, very rare. You may want to have a look at Ovarit, or Lipstick Alley, to see how other women-led sites feel.

In my experience 'gc' views are the views of the huge but largely silent majority. Most people have been successfully scared into not discussing these issues, but polls show that the public's views reflect those of women on here.

Because everyone is GC bar a few people who haven't thought it through yet.

I’d say mumsnet is probably in line with the population but like many things it is the silent majority.
the vast majority of people do not believe that humans can change sex, that wearing pink means a boy is actually a girl or that blokes who state they are women should be able to undress in women’s changing rooms or compete in their sports.
the only people who think otherwise are thick, perverted, in thrall to wokeism or think they are being kind.
people don’t speak out becuae they are scared of censure or being sacked.

The reason put forward for Britain being dubbed "Terf island" is due to having a very strong feminist history/tradition, which is probably why it is the most vociferous (and freest in being able to speak) on this topic. Mumsnet being largely made up of Brits will thus reflect that.

Kellie Jay Keen is the modern (watered down) version of Pankhurst..."Votes for women" banners..now read "Adult human female".

While america has "the Karen" (the latest incarnation there of the protected white woman who terrorises non white people or demands to "speak to the manager"), Britain has the radical feminist. Britain is used to female leaders so it's second nature to be outspoken on social/political issues.

A different angle (warning - do not expect such a level of intelligence as pp!); we as women experience on a daily basis the problems our country is going through as we battle with schools, gp's, care for elderly, cost of living etc. This fixation on trans 'needs' (such a tiny proportion of our population) by our government etc. has taken so much brainpower and money from the very basic provisions needed by its population; they are fiddling while Rome burns. In the majority of cases being trans does not supersede your needs as a human being so they and their families are also suffering. There is no time or money to devote to them; it is a luxury when people are cold, hungry, in pain, I could go on. As MN is a space for women of course we will be gc and thank God we are allowed to be and to educate ourselves. A bastion of common sense.

I work with a very close knit group of about 20 people , I think people only tend to voice the obvious nowadays amongst people they trust , and as such we all know each other’s views on the subject . Mumsnet is an anonymous forum where common sense can prevail and honest thoughts discussed without fear of a backlash.

america is the birthplace of hate crime laws (created in the 1870s as a response to that nation's history of terrorizing non white PEOPLE (not "savages" as in the case of the Natives in its 'declaration' (white settler colonial document), or "property' as in the case enslaved blacks in its constitution...PEOPLE) so your comment on 'robust' free speech is odd.

Prosecution is extremely high there. Hate crime is constantly brought up in news reports as a possible motive to the latest act towards a minority (who by 2050 will be in the majority in america, and boy will the tables have turned on the dominant class then).

Because mothers dealing with the practicalities of family and child-rearing, protecting their children from harm while managing their own careers, need to say it how it is, and don't have time for any 'emperor's new clothes' nonsense.

And of course another reason why so many here are GC. There is nowhere else for us.

I'm Gen Z and currently childless. Probably less "true GC" and a little more conservative than most of the users on FWR. But MN is one of the only forums where I feel comfortable.

I could not identify out of chronic lower back pain with my period.

I could not identify out of perimenopause or menopause.

My husband could not give birth to our children.

I have breasts and vagina.

My husband has a penis.

This is the only place where I could say all the above, and say I am a woman, an adult human female, without getting arrested.

The fact that some people want a law in place where I could get arrested for claiming my own identity and my own sex radicalized the hell out of me.

Because we are allowed to talk here

@ireallycantthinkofaname and your stance is?

Intersectional analysis, in its original pure Kimberlé Crenshaw sense, looks at interlocking axes of oppression that put up double barriers against progression. So take the example of a black woman in a town where the car manufacturing plant is the majority employer. She tries to apply for a white collar job in the offices, but is rejected, because they only employ white people there. She also applies to be an apprentice assembler on the factory floor, but is rejected as they only employ men there. The company stats show that ostensibly they employ blacks, whites, men & women, so it can’t be proven that she is being discriminated against, yet she falls foul of this double bind, that needs intersectional analysis to prove, yes this is discrimination. All sensible and reasonable to fight this.

The bastardised form of intersectionality comes in when the two categories are ontologically, by material reality, mutually exclusive, eg “women” and “penis havers”. Women can’t and don’t have penises, without egregious mangling of the language, which serves to shoehorn penises into women-focussed concerns, spaces and policies. Not everything must or should intersect with penis 😁

Yes, there are many many things I find about MN more than irritating, but in a world where no one else would let those of us who are on FWR have a voice, it is exceptional.

And of course another reason why so many here are GC. There is nowhere else for us.

Not forgetting that in terms of women's issues, in all areas of are lives, queer trans ideology is a more active threat than the ongoing ingrained mysogyny.

There was a massive amount of effort made to make MN cave as well. They were pretty damn brave not to.

This. Credit to Justine and MN for holding out, even though I don't agree with every decision they made.

For many, the sheer act of having children opens your eyes to the systematic disadvantage of being a woman.

I certainly thought I was equal in terms of agency, career, expectations etc pre-children.

The trans discussions are secondary but in very simplistic terms bearing children is something only those biologically female can do so of course you're going to see more people here awake to biological reality because we've experienced it.

And Mumsnet is one of the few places online you can say this now.

I live on a working class council estate. Everyone I know is GC.

I used to work in a factory and biological realism was the norm there too.

I suspect people who have spent less time in academia are less prone to overly theoretical thinking, and if you're doing a manual job it's harder to ignore certain physical differences between the sexes.

The world is full of gc people. Iranian women didn’t stop wanting rights and a role in society because they were locked inside and nobody dared say it. Chinese people didn’t stop wanting more than one child because you weren’t allowed, even if in public they’d never ever say it. Mumsnet lets us say it.

I live on a working class council estate. Everyone I know is GC. No one hates trans people btw , but recognises that sex is reality and that no one can change sex. Maybe you should expand your horizons.

I agree that an intersectional lens can be helpful to feminism when looking at the layers of oppression a woman may experience that include poverty, race , religion, education etc. I don't see Rad feminism being in opposition to intersectional feminism. Both focus on helping women, IME.

As to MN being GC, well, I came here because all the leftist feminist groups I'd been in started muting women's speech. Simply stating, "I don't see an issue with pussy hats at the Women's March" would get you a scolding. Stating, "transgirls in girls' sports isn't fair or safe" would get you a warning from mods and some harrumphing about TRANSPHOBIA! And when a post that starts with "I support trans people's rights but puberty blockers seems very unnecessary for a boy who simply likes pink" got hundreds of likes, well, shut down the witch because she's recruiting for a TERF coven!

MN was a breath of fresh air! I'm from the states and our freedom of speech is very robust so to see American political groups shut down women talking was very disturbing. Sure, they can't send us to jail but when you get kicked off every FB page for daring to question if girls should wear binders...you know immediately why McCarthyism 2.0 could happen.

As usual first comment hits the nail on the head 👆🏼