Why is Mumsnet so GC?

Everything's so fluid these days.

The 'constellation' of data points thing reminds me of when I first started reading about this shit show. I remember one of the many Fae/Faye people then defining a woman as a 'shifting constellation'.

They was a bit of a pretentious knobber IIRC. Not that that narrows the field much.

There is no consistency to an of BH’s story. Internal or external.

I guess that fit with BH’s epistemological stance in which ‘truth’ is determined entirely by BH’s feelings in that moment. so what is ‘true’ shifts and fluctuates radically, even within the same sentence.

It's another contradiction then isn't it. BH simultaneously passes but has also not had much validation.

BH has most definitely insisted that BH passes as a woman. In fact, I think the claim was typically hyperbolic and centres around some idea that BH is considered far more womanly than any biological woman. The phrase ‘model transition’ may have been bandied about in this context.

Stereotypes and nonsense is what it means.

I really resent this crap about ‘existence’ when what is actually at stake is whether the rest of us are allowed to form
our own opinion and act accordingly.

The big lie at the heart of transactivism is that trans people can - and should - determine what truth is for everyone else and control how everyone acts and things in line with their preferred version of reality.

Deffo not Alphawoman. AW happily admitted to being 6 foot plus and 17 stones and being nowhere near passing.

What does a man “living as a woman” look like?

What does a man “living as a woman” being asked to “pretend to be a man” look like?

What is going on here in these situations, conceptually?

Your existence has never been contested @ButterflyHatched,

People know you exist. It’s your version of the truth and determination to control how other people think about and talk about you that is contested.

Catastrophic hyperbole about how your existence is at stake is just that: catastrophic hyperbole.

Hells - I am more optimistic in some ways rethinking. I think that the horse has already bolted and the awareness will not be pushed back into a subversive stable. It will unfortunately take time.

I think we wait an inordinately long time for awareness to influence people's health or social behaviour in many sphere. Some examples.

• 5-A-Day that was always intended to be a transition to the actual 7 or 9 a day.
• We know about the recommendations in re: healthy body weights and physical activity.
• Lots of disability awareness, relatively negligible accommodations in workplaces, public spaces, public services like transport or healthcare, far less businesses. (Jay Rayner recently had a piece about identifying a restaurant that could accommodate someone in a wheelchair.) https://www.theguardian.com/food/2024/feb/15/yes-it-can-be-hard-to-get-a-restaurant-table-but-it-can-be-impossible-if-youre-a-wheelchair-user-jay-rayner

So, as ever, I remain agape at the behavioural modification and scale of changes introduced in what seems record time by this phenomenon. And the number of spheres, healthcare, the legal system, policy making, employment law, prison service, education…

I shall go and look at the blossom at a tree until I have an uplift :)

That might have been Alphawoman.

And to add...

It's like being forced to agree the Easter Bunny is indeed real because John in Accounts is adamant he saw the real Easter Bunny in spring 1986.

Amaryllis - Me too but I am not sure if a study could even get ethical approval when after all these years there is so little evidence of benefit from puberty suppression.

Information about the study is now available.

Professor Emily Simonoff has been confirmed as Chief Investigator and will now lead on developing the detailed proposal for the planned research on puberty suppressing hormones in early onset gender dysphoria. Emily is Professor of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience, King’s College London, where she is also currently Head of the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Director of the King’s Maudsley Partnership for Children and Young People. She has extensive research experience and is also academic lead for the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services Clinical Academic Group at the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust. The research is being developed through the National Research Collaboration Programme, a joint partnership between the National Institute for Health and Care Research (NIHR) and NHS England.

Good set of sponsors and partners. I'd think they're confident about obtaining approval.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board/

He did say that,but then again don't they all?

Didn't BH previously say that they passed as a woman? Or am I thinking of someone else?

I don't see why any man should have their assertion they are a woman validated. It's not true so why would I validate it?

I have seen nothing, heard nothing and read nothing in all these years that adequately explains to me why I should believe a man stood in front of me is a woman just because he says so.

I am happy to change my thoughts on this just as soon as someone can give me an explanation as to why I should that actually makes sense.

how I should get in my lane and pretend to be a man

As a male, how are you “living as a woman”? This would be useful information pertaining to your question to me about whether I think the GRA is still valid.

My existence has been contested all my life - I've never been consciously aware of a world where I wasn't subject to attempts to brutalise me into pretending to adopt an identity I didn't experience.

Nearly four decades worth of gender-enforcement behaviour and I still haven't given in.

If you are of the opinion that the reality I have experienced all my life is false and are inclined to 'educate' or debate me on how I should get in my lane and pretend to be a man then I'm afraid there is quite a crowd who came before you.

There certainly hasn't been much validation going on.

I know! If my sister decided she was now my brother there is no way I would be prepared to rewrite my 50+ years history of having a sister in order to collude with her mistaken belief she was now a bloke.

I'm not surprised you've managed to alienate your sister; you seem to have convinced yourself that observing a simple linguistic politeness is an unforgivable act of betrayal more important than your relationship with her.

This is so wrong, you do not get to overwrite a relationship with incorrect terms

Tens of thousands of individual women who started out wanting to be non confrontational and inclusive gradually realising that that is not what is being demanded of us does not make a 'movement'.

For me that man in the Guardian piece who insisted on telling the shop assistant that he was going to wear the lingerie he was buying, because he enjoyed the fact that she didn't want to hear about his sex life and he could force her to, was one big trigger. Another has been watching the physical disintegration of a once bright young girl who has become a wheelchair bound wreck as a result of treatments to aid transition. A third one has been seeing how closely the manipulation and dishonesty around the transition process for young women tracks that around anorexia in 80s and 90s.

I'm not in a movement. I'm a lifelong feminist who can recognise hostility to women being pushed by commercial interests. It stinks. Gender stinks.

I'm not sure who you are referring to with this?

I'm not surprised you've managed to alienate your sister; you seem to have convinced yourself that observing a simple linguistic politeness is an unforgivable act of betrayal more important than your relationship with her.

Red has a brother. Not a sister. She's always had a brother, why should she call him her sister? Why should Red have to rewrite her history to placate her brother?

Holding an opinion that reality doesn't matter, doesn't change reality.

HTH

I think we are forgetting something. If a person can convince themselves that they, as a male person, has any advice to offer young female people and female children because of their ‘experience as a woman’, they are obviously open to being convinced that feminist groups are collapsing!

Just saying….