Why is Mumsnet so GC?

I've NEVER been asked if I was going to have children, probably the stink from the raw fish heads 🤢

Just like the 'constellation of data points that I identify as being 'woman'', I feel.

And just like the other male posters contributions such as nominating that an established trend of more than 100 women and girls harmed in the UK would need to be reported before women could get safeguarding loopholes addressed.

And that women's value was based on their breast size.

And that female puberty was about growing breasts and a pert bum.

I mean.... the list goes on and on.... commonality? All male posters.

And of course in 2024 this has changed beyond all recognition...Not.

Yeah, I was working freelance by then and so my parental status didn't matter. I dealt with clients individually and was working from home mostly and they all knew about my family status. It was why I worked flexible hours.

I certainly don't expect the question stopped being asked even in 2024. Obviously they are not going to ask me though. I am very much clearly identifiable as past pregnancy potential.

Something that a male will not have to worry about.

Gosh.

My boss really was backwards.

My experience was as late as 2013.

What's the difference between a MRA telling you women have too many rights and it's not fair on men as sexism doesn't exist anymore

And

A TRA telling you that feminism hasn't been needed since 1979 and that women don't need sex based rights because being a woman is something in your head.

I have to say the 1979 comment is one of those that's going to live long in MNs collective memories isn't it?!

I remember well that everyone knew exactly which people to oppress. I remember even in 1985 being asked if I was 'planning on having children' for full time job interviews. And gosh..... I was still being asked that in 2005!

Yes...
One thing that wasn't happening afaik in 1979 was discussing

whether or not you really, really provably definitely fulfil all the criteria of womanhood

yep.

But special menz....

And yet I am sure I was hearing Germaine on tele around 1979.

I really don't think that Germaine was confused at all by the criteria of womanhood.

I remember 1979. Women earnt considerably less than men, whilst working harder due to the unequal domestic burden they carried. They were subject to domestic violence and sexual violence at epic levels with no effective state response, lacked access to affordable childcare, safe abortion, suitable healthcare, and were blighted by poverty in later life due to pension inequalities. To add insult to injury they were marginalised, humilated and abused if they failed to adopt sterotyped presentation and behaviours as a good and attractive girl/wife/mother.

This resulted in widespread psychological distress, which was treated as individual pathology and not a response to social injustice.

It's incredibly difficult to talk about these real and important issues facing women when a conservative rearguard keeps resetting the discussion back to whether or not you really, really provably definitely fulfil all the criteria of womanhood like it's 1979.

The criteria of womanhood have not changed since we evolved into mammals, mate.

I’m glad this post is still standing

Agree

I am LOVING the idea that feminism after 1979 is pointless and that 2 billion year old sexual reproduction is irrelevant to the female experience.

I was born in 1978.

My boss for many years made the point that if I ever got pregnant I would destroy his small business because he wouldn't be able to afford to pay the wage bill.

I left before I did.

It's 2024 yes. There's still sexism. You know the old fashioned kind that existed back in 1979.

We can see some of it on this thread.

Reminds me of the kind of faux left wing man who thinks we should be grateful it's not as bad for women in the UK as it is in Afghanistan. And thinks that gratefulness should extend to allowing enlightened UK men in all our spaces. Unable to see that they practice the same misogyny, just lower down the scale.

Not really.

Your contributions here are illustrative of the very point that red just made. That many of us have made on threads where you were present over the years.

It really is part of the male entitlement and socialisation that you cannot acknowledge.

Here is another example. Attempting to put your own issues, as a male person, into the discussion about a post clearly stating how negative sexist discrimination exists for female people both directly and indirectly. Your own discrimination is not the same as what female people have be subject to since before they were even born.

But thanks for another example of male entitlement/ socialisation / privilege.

Mate.

There's really not much between traditional Conservative/ Religious views on gender roles and Gender ideology views on gender identity.

The former wants you to change your personality, the latter to change your body.

Both are based on regressive stereotypes. Both seek to control women and keep men powerful. Both represent a prison for women.

You obviously know feminists reject the former (otherwise you'd have not used it as an insult) so what makes you think women ought to accept the latter?

All the academic phrases, philosophical wrangling, coercion, misrepresentation, scolding and insults. And yet never reading, never engaging.

Feminists want to be FREE. From traditional conservative men and from gender ideology men. Two sides of the same patriarchal coin.

It's incredibly difficult to talk about these real and important issues facing women when a conservative rearguard keeps resetting the discussion back to whether or not you really, really provably definitely fulfil all the criteria of womanhood like it's 1979.

No idea what womanhood is, but sexual reproduction evolved about 2 billion years ago, and that is why human females need specific sex based rights and services to participate equally in society, regardless of their feelings about gender or identity.

Human rights frameworks are generally thought of as left wing, but you seem unable to acknowledge the concept.

Only a woman can fulfil all the criteria of womanhood.

You need two things

1 Be born female
2 survive to adulthood.

That's it.

You STILL have not engaged on my points about Sex Based Rights.

Try Again.

Its 2024 yes. There's still sexism. You know the old fashioned kind that existed back in 1979.

Nice of you to notice it.

It’s incredibly difficult to talk about these real and important issues facing women when men come along and merail entire threads going on about their own experiences of not being a woman, and mansplaining womanhood and feminism to women yet here we are

It's incredibly difficult to talk about these real and important issues facing women when a conservative rearguard keeps resetting the discussion back to whether or not you really, really provably definitely fulfil all the criteria of womanhood like it's 1979.

Indeed.

We developed positive sex discrimination for gendered issues because the presence of male socialisation was the problem AS WELL AS biologically based protections.

Male socialisation has the effect of women's non participation because they often feel mansplained to, talked over or intimidated because they don't have the same level of confidence. They don't feel able to demand even their basic rights and instead have been conditioned to accept the lowest levels and to be gratiful for that ("ignore your birth trauma and injuries and don't complain, be grateful you have a healthy baby anyone?").

Trans Right Activism actively seeks to use this same socialisation to its advantage by suggesting that women have equality and all the rights they need and that its unkind to speak up about their sex based rights. They have the 'cis privilege' nonsense to pretend there aren't massive issues with female levels of confidence and under performance in the work place (despite now often having higher educational attainment).

Maybe we should talk about THIS aspect of gender stereotypes and JUST how much they hold back women, whilst talking about how we should abandon sex because its 'just the way your cells are arranged' and replace it with gender stereotypes.