Just 5 trans women in women’s jails - Inside Time article

So a woman cannot just say NO to sharing anything at all with a tw?

You do know how consent works yes?

They can say no. That is why these theoretical conversations are so full of pearl clutching.

What is this hypothetical trans prisoner in prison for?

Doesn't matter.

What is their risk status?

Doesn't matter.

And this is the problem with the risk assessments used to put them there. It's not about the man. It's about the women.

Virtually all women in prison have experienced male violence, and a significant number will have a lasting trauma response to men simply because they are men. It doesn't matter how 'safe' the man may be in theory, it is inhumane to subject women to constant fear simply to appease men who want to be there - for whatever reason. Women in prison are entitled to psychological as well as physical safety. And to dignity. This has been understood for 2 centuries.

Many men in prison are vulnerable - old men, young men, small men, disabled men... That's no reason to put them in the women's estate. My DP is kind, gentle, slightly built, wouldn't dream of attacking anybody, I've never heard him so much as raise his voice (except to be heard when we're on different floors) and he's about the last person I could imagine ending up in prison, but if he were caught up in something like the Post Office mess and ended up in prison for an entirely non-violent offence he shouldn't be in the women's estate. Because he is a man.

And doing someone's hair is about the most primal gift there is. All primates do it.

Unfortunately, there have been assaults and no change. A death might do it, but I wouldn't rely on even that opening sufficient eyes.

Huge numbers of them in prison! What's total population of prisons: 70-80000…?

Men need to be in men's prison.
And GRC nonsense needs to stop.

Humans can not change sex.

Humans also are very unlikely to change their behaviour patterns.

There is or was one transman in the male estate in Scotland.

In Scotland there are roughly 282 women in prison.

There is one women-only prison in Scotland – HMP Cornton Vale – which holds the majority of female prisoners (219). Some women are also held at HMP Edinburgh (96), HMP Greenock (53), and HMP Grampian (49)

One male is too many.

So a woman cannot just say NO to sharing anything at all with a tw?

You do know how consent works yes?

"Of course you are 😁 and if you are, you are part of the problem I'm afraid. Those of us that actually give a shit are campaigning for more trans wings, not to lock vulnerable people up with sex offenders on VP wings."

What does VP in VP wings stand for if not vulnerable prisoner? Why should vulnerable people not be on the VP wing? Also MoJ own stats show that there is a disproportionately high percentage of sex offenders amongst trans identifying prisoners.

Providing trans wings would likely see a massive drop in prison-onset gender dysphoria however.

A previous poster asked if we'd been in prison. No, I haven't. My mother was, though, and she started talking to me about it to me when I was 7. You're off your rocker if you're going to assure me my mother thought mixed-sex prisons would be great!

Here's an entire page of incarcerated women explaining that making the women's prisons mixed-sex does affect them. Are they scotch mist, perhaps?

Women in prison speak out

Don’t forget that we are all bigots!

Peal clutching

Nonsense

And men running around exchanging hair accessories with women.

<ticks bingo card. Hides yet another thread.>

'GC' as they come for the bingo card!

Bigoted is another word that is completely denuded of meaning.

A propos of nothing, Felix has been quiet recently, wonder if the their job has been keeping them busy or maybe they’ve moved into a different career.

I think it's wrong. Just because you have changed your gender doesn't mean anything. Especially if they haven't transitioned fully.

Believe it or not I'm gender critical and actually hate being prefixed with cis 😂

Bingo card out, vipers….

Pearl clutching.
Bigots.
Misgendering.
TW are so vulnerable.

So predictable and repetitive - although we have so far been spared “cis”.

So what's misgendering then, and why is it such a problem for you?

I mean it's just absurd that you are more worried about people offending these males incarcerated in the women's estate than you are about the safety and dignity of the women they have been forced upon.

It's just the same old putting the males first when it comes down to it.

Women are always the bottom of the heap.

I didn't realise that people were confused about the biological sex of transwomen. I thought that was something that was clearly obvious, oh silly me.

It's obfuscatory language. Up to a third of people in a recent poll thought that "trans woman" meant a female person identifying as a man. So your assumption is misguided. They are male, and that needs to be clear.

@RMNofTikTok it would not be a strange thing to do as it would be breaking MN guidelines. My point being please identify where I have been bigoted?

Being honest about the sex of a trans woman is essential though.

I didn't realise that people were confused about the biological sex of transwomen. I thought that was something that was clearly obvious, oh silly me.

Why would I report it? That seems like a rather strange thing to request.

Being honest about the sex of a trans woman is essential though.

Trans women are not a subset of women they are male.

Telling the truth about the sex of a person when the subject is whether it is appropriate to incarcerate women with some males is essential.

I find it astonishing that you can work in the prison estate and call women who tell the truth about the sex of a person bigoted for doing so.

Sex matters, whether that is in prison, the swimming pool, changing rooms, school toilets, Guide camps, the work place, on a hospital ward, on trains, etc,etc…..

@RMNofTikTok please do report my post that expressed bigoted views to MNHQ and it will be deleted.