Just 5 trans women in women’s jails - Inside Time article

Like fuck I'll respect his pronouns or anything about him.

Also, like fuck I’ll avoid male pronouns to keep other people happy. About any male prisoner. Or any male.

Karen White is a rapist. One of his victims was injured so badly she may never have children. Like fuck I'll respect his pronouns or anything about him.

He deserves to be kept safe from harm in the male estate and that's as much sympathy as I will afford him.

He. He is a multiple rapist and a paedophile. He is not they. He has multiple aliases but they’re all the same man. He went to a women’s prison because he was called “she” and convinced everyone he wasn’t a threat, because some people can’t see the reality of the impact of any man in a women’s prison, especially when you’re pretending to yourself he’s a woman. The women themselves aren’t asked. It’s just assumed based on observed non-verbal behaviour. Everything is fine if women aren’t obviously cowering.

I know.

I'm covering bases for men who might have had it surgically removed for actual medical reasons...

Side issue, but men don't have their prostates removed as part of gender reassignment surgery. Prostate havers remain prostate havers.

You can change your pronouns but not your prostate status.

Prostates and those who have had protastes removed, have not business being in a women's prison.

Because they are male.

Women are not male.

Well if that's the benchmark, so be it.
Men of all stripes and any gender can take up the challenge if they wish. It's still not womens problem to solve

@RMNofTikTok so are you saying that for a man or woman with gender dysphoria who makes the effort to present and conduct themselves according to the stereotypes they associate with the opposite sex in order to relieve their dysphoria, you are happy to use non sex based pronouns (i.e. they or perhaps cross-sex) and consider this a compassionate response to that individual?
Is that a fair representation of your position?
What I am saying is that I also feel that I am responding compassionately but may choose to stay with sex-based pronouns. Would you consider that to be transphobic or deliberately hurtful? (I have asked that before but you didn't answer. It's fine if it's not in your interests to answer, I'm just curious.)

I don’t buy into the concept of gender, so the idea of misgendering is meaningless. People have a sex, that is all. I do not see why I should pretend that I think they are of the opposite sex.

If a man wants me to call him Jane, I’m happy to oblige, and I’ll refrain from using pronouns and sex-based honorifics in his presence, or to his friends, if using facts upsets him.

To be fair, I would agree with that!

So in general they keep men safe.

No I said "as safe as possible". That's not safe lol. They just prevent prisoners from killing each other most of the time, and sometimes they can't even do that.

No, I said prisons don't usually have time to create supportive communities

Karen white should never have been placed in female estate, I think I've already covered that

There is a very good piece of writing entitled 'Pronouns are rohypnol' on the Fair Play for Women website which details how many people are extremely wary and concerned at being, hmm, 'encouraged' to use human pronouns which are at variance with known reality.
Whether it's legal coercion or not, it is putting one particular person's feeling way above another's and the validation for the first person is the only thing that's important. It's expecting people to ignore the evidence of their own eyes. Gaslighting or what?
Personally, I've had enough of 'being kind.' It's nothing more than a one-way street.
And for RMNofTikTok to dismiss a page or more of distressing evidence from current and former incarcerated females because some (but not all) are in a different prison system totally ignores that these women were talking about their genuine, ever-present terror of being locked up with males. It is clearly illustrative of how women feel in these conditions and seeing as there may still be some TW (who really knows?) in the women's estate, there are likely to be women here who are experiencing that fear. It's not acceptable.

WTF

we dont even know who the fuck you are talking about. Just some random Male prisoner kept in the female estate. It could literally be any man.

Report what, to who?

Christ alive I'm hardly shaking in my fucking boots here.

It's a MAN if you dont like correctly sexing people, dont post.

RMNofTikTok · Today 10:17

And prior to the changes in policy I could completely understand why people were outraged. Obviously I can only go on the female estate that I worked in, but I've never known anyone with a penis go to female estate in reality.

What about Karen White? Even they now say that transw shouldn't be in women's prisons and they is a multiple rapist.

Calling people 'it' would be dehumanising. calling people by the pronouns that correctly sex someone is correctly sexing them. It is not dehumanising.

I'm aghast at the claim that no female prisoner has complained about a male prisoner being in female prisons (because they "don't have time"?!)

So in general they keep men safe.

Carry on and treat more men safely. As tw are men, you can keep them safe. How is not my problem.

@RMNofTikTok I'm not just talking about physical appearance either.

There is no way for a man to use language as a woman, to carry himself as a woman or to interact with others as a woman. He can act as himself and if he has to make an effort then he is performing what he thinks is womanhood.

That's what I'm saying.

The court case was argued on the basis not of 'gender autonomy' or for a person who had had genital surgery, but because the NHS service refused to plan surgery for someone who was not 'living as a woman' and that prisoner could only do that in the female estate, because that's how female prisoners live - with other women.

I can't help wondering if the NHS service originally thought that was a surefire way of not having to do the surgery. But more likely they weren't thinking that carefully.

The whole idea of 'living as a woman' is of course sexist. Here is where feminism does completely agree with the trans rights movement that this sort of gatekeeping is usually based on sexist and outdated thinking. If you're gender critical you perhaps go on to consider that the entire basis of physical medical treatment for gender dysphoria, originating as it did in the highly sexist 30s/40s/50s, is based on sexism too.

@itsfinallytime

I find your projecting comment about gaslighting curious and ironic.

I mean we can ask the reverse question.

How do we keep women safe?

By making alternative provision for transwomen so there is no desire to consider placing them in female estate.

The answer is the same, though I do respect your position that you want to look at it through a female lens first.

As for passing, it's not about physical appearance, it's about the language you use, how you physically carry yourself, and how you interact with others. A man in a dress is just that. I would not accept them as a trans woman if they were behaving like a male socialised person.

Odfod, everyone can see what you have done on this thread.

You have said none violent transwomen are rightly in the female estate in the absence of transgender wings.

You have scolded women and called us pearl clutching bigots for pointing out that these people are men.

You are clearly so out of touch with reality that you either can't remember what you posted or are trying to gaslight us into believing something that is untrue. Rather like trying to gaslight that some men are women. They are not.

@PonyPatter44 an appropriate choice in that instance at that time. Things have changed since then with the ever growing numbers of TW trying to access female estates that look like men, sound like men, and for all intents and purposes should be treated by men.