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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article on AGP by Dr Joe Burgo "Sympathy for the Devil: Autogynephilia as Psychic Retreat"

52 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 02/02/2024 01:44

Dr Burgo likes to distinguish between the 'brave men' who come to him for counselling and the bad, abusive AGPs. This article has so many words to examine these AGP men, and their shame and how much understanding and compassion they need, and no mention of their sexism or misogyny.

Burgo discusses how these men self-soothe by assuming and play-acting ideas of womanhood that are ditsy/bimbo/childlike and free from stress or responsibility, these men envy women’s ability to be placid (yup, that’s women for ya; placid all day long we are).

Burgo is dealing with a population that ostensibly wishes to reduce their paraphiliac behaviour and not with population that embraces it; I don’t believe he has a well-rounded view of the issue.

Burgo has so much compassion for these AGP men but where’s his compassion for women and what these men are doing to women and children. He wants to concentrate on building up these men’s ability to take the initiative and to be masculine. How about telling them that their ideas of womanhood are revolting and sexist Dr Burgo?

This article made me feel angry because of the omission of properly analysing the inherent sexism behind AGP but others on FWR might have different views after reading it so I thought might be interesting to discuss it.

Don’t let the early paragraphs put you off:

'Men presumed to be autogynephiles have a special power to infuriate radical feminists and others who advocate for women’s sex-based rights. To say that these women loathe AGPs would be an understatement. Porn-addled fetishists, sexual deviants, and narcissistic creeps are but a few of the caustic epithets deployed to vilify them. AGPs are self-evidently evil and scarcely human. Men who derive sexual satisfaction from putting on women’s lingerie and masturbating in front of a mirror are the devil incarnate.

In my practice as a psychotherapist, I work with a half dozen such men, some once or twice per week and others for a cluster of sessions at irregular intervals. Unlike the typical TRA who denies struggling with autogynephilia, my clients acknowledge that they’re in the grips of a sexual compulsion that torments them. They know they are not and never can be women, even though they may be tortured by the siren call to “transition.” More than anything, they long to be free of the profound shame they feel.

I approach therapy with these men just as I would with any other client–that is, with an open mind but also with a set of assumptions about human nature and what drives us. Though autogynephilia may seem almost impossible for most of us to fathom, I believe these men struggle with the same challenges the rest of us do.'

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-autogynephilia

Sympathy for the Devil: Autogynephilia as Psychic Retreat

There’s no one-size-fits-all explanation for why some men become autogynephilic.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/sympathy-for-the-devil-autogynephilia?r=hy8i&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

OP posts:
Fubbs · 02/02/2024 07:12

Glad it wasn't just me irritated/enraged by the 'poor AGP men' article from a - checks notes - MAN! Of course, the AGP deserves all our sympathies, nasty women that we are!!

aweegc · 02/02/2024 07:10

Interesting article to read that I wouldn't have come across myself.

I'll be interested to see his article about the abuse AGPs put their wives and families through. It could be a partner article to this, but I'm not sure it will be.

I find the general problem in this article is that while he has a very good grasp of how he sees AGPs, he simply doesn't understand what it is to be a woman, to grow up in a world as one. He can superficially see some things could be infuriating about AGPs, but he doesn't get why it's DEEPLY offensive.

He can see the deep pain and shame of the AGPs but not those attached to womanhood (which is WHY they feel being a woman is "relaxing"). I wonder if it would be easier for him if instead of dressing up as a way to reach some kind of warped maternal figure, white AGPs were dressing up as racialised servants. I do wonder if he'd feel able to write the same article talking about men who self soothe by dressing up as, say, African American servants from the 1950s who could very much be viewed as "placid" due to the societal constraints. Now I'm not saying the USA for black people in 1950 is the same as being a white women today (or even then). My point is about an absurd and insulting stereotype being discussed without much awareness for how ridiculous it is and how that is offensive. Just like it's right that blackface and fetishisation of black bodies and oppressive experiences of being black is wrong and socially absolutely unacceptable, especially by white people, so it should be that dressing up as a woman who is either a harmful stereotype (bimbo), or subject to male sexual oppression (sissy), or a sort of trad mother (denied the right to self-actualise outside the home while the father was doing manly things like earning money) is socially unacceptable. And while yes, it's socially unacceptable to dress up as a woman, that's due to ideas centering masculinity, not the female experience. And that's what "feminists" (or whatever we're called in his article) are objecting to.

I could say all this far more succinctly: he may be a good therapist for AGPs (he obviously thinks he is), but as a woman living in this world, I'd never, ever want him as my therapist and would advise any woman with any life issue that is connected to living as a real life woman, to look for someone else.

(I'm having formatting issues because I stupidly added a couple of asterisks! I wanted to add that I am deliberately using white AGPs and white women, to try to illustrate the point, but I do not at all think AGPs are only white, and definitely do not think that feminists are only white either - in my own life they're the minority. It seems the author is a white man though, so I cannot imagine he'd be comfortable publicly stating everything he did in the article, if race played a major role in being AGP).

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