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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me with an argument re adult transwomen please

105 replies

plipplops · 30/01/2024 11:17

I was having a conversation with my sister about why transwomen should be in women's spaces. She's open to the conversations but thinks 'it's complicated'.
I was saying that under no circumstances do I want a bloke in my changing room/toilet/hospital ward/rape crisis centre/sports team.

She works for a large bank and there are a couple of transwomen who work there. They're older, more of the old school transsexual and possibly have a GRC (or would certainly go through the effort of getting one).

She feels that if they have a GRC they should be able to use the ladies loo as having gone through the process of getting a GRC means they're somehow vetted and therefore no safeguarding risk to women. I feel that they just need to go in the mens.

How do you 'be kind' to the genuine gender dysphoric men out there if they would genuinely be distressed by asking to use the ladies loo? Or is it just that you can't be?

My hunch is that you can't be, and sorry but just use the mens, but I'm interested in the other side to the debate?

OP posts:
ChaToilLeam · 30/01/2024 11:48

You aren’t “vetted” before receiving a GRC. I’m afraid your sister has been misled. You need a diagnosis and evidence you have been “living as a woman”. Some jurisdictions want to do away even with that small barrier and allow self-ID.

Datun · 30/01/2024 11:46

There is no vetting. Sex offenders, rapists, none are precluded from getting a GRC. You don't need surgery either.

NoBinturongsHereMate · 30/01/2024 11:44

What does she think the 'vetting' consists of? There are no safety checks or DBS equivalent involved. You need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria (no requirement to have had surgery or hormone treatment), £5, and some utility bills that say 'Miss' or 'Mrs'.

www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/what-documents-you-need

LittleLittleRex · 30/01/2024 11:34

You explain to her that even if she is fine with it, she isn't able to consent on behalf of all women - including those from minority religions, sexual abuse survivors and anyone (like you) who just doesn't want to see a man in there.

The GRC is a non starter as you can't put the responsibility onto women, that it is their job to essentially vet these men. Their distress at going into a toilet with men, is of no greater value that a womans distress at the same.

Tell her you will fight with TW for them to be given third spaces, but that for you women come first.

Beowulfa · 30/01/2024 11:30

As mammals cannot change sex, transwomen entering women's toilets turns them into mixed sex spaces. Some women may be ok with that, but observant religious women and some survivors of male sexual violence won't be.

A large employer could hopefully provide single occupancy mixed sex toilets that transwomen could use (others also might prefer these for a variety of reasons).

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