Starmer: "trans-inclusive" conversion therapy ban, "modernise" the GRA, all hate crime to be aggravated offences as part of making every child "proud and confident"

There you go; one minute he says a women is an adult female then next he says some can have a penis. Maybe he'll come up with a different definition tomorrow. This is just the issue with Starmer; flips all over the place. He can't be trusted.

And so we go round in circles.

Define Female when the GRA (introduced by Labour) allows some men to have female on their birth certificate.

Unless and until Labour commit that the meaning of female excludes all males , even those with documents which say they are female thanks to the legislation THE LABOUR PARTY introduced I don't believe a word they say on this issue.

That's just a made up smear though redcar. He did no such thing.

Thats what I mean. Don't vote for him, fine. Not voting for him on the basis of some totally made up "facts", you are being taken for a mug by someone.

I can't believe there are still people willing to give Starmer the benefit of doubt, he showed exactly what he thought of women when he blocked prosecution of grooming gangs as head of the CPS, he knew exactly what was happening but it was young girls (the usual kind) so they didn't matter 🤷‍♀️ I'll never vote for him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/26/keir-starmer-woman-is-adult-female-labour-hardens-stance/

Labour leader says a woman is an adult female

Conservative party leader said woman is an adult human female.

Labour party leader said some women have a penis.

I mean that's not true is it, the Conservatives have a huge majority from previously Labour seats. I thought accepted wisdom was Labour were holding their noses to avoid a corbyn premiership and "get brexit done"

Bit of a derail, but I see Labour won't bring back a cap on bankers' bonuses.

Oh, and in my opinion there is no evidence whatsoever that the Conservatives intend to do anything about womens rights. Their stated position is the same as Labour. Its all hot air and empty promises at the moment.

I'm happy to be persuaded but I need more than "Kemi is looking at it" to be convinced. Maria Miller looked at it and proposed self ID. Liz Truss looked at it and proposed a quicker, cheaper, "kinder" GRC process .

If you are convinced a Conservative vote is best for women based on logic then my post wasn't aimed at you and I entirely respect your democratic right to vote how you choose, no judgement here.

In general I hear a lot of people (IRL as well as online, over lots of issues not just this one) say "they are all just as bad" and in general these are traditional Conservative voters. Those are the people I was talking about.

I don't think its conscious, I think its them trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by the party they feel is their political home being currently populated by a bunch of far right populists, liars and people out for themselves.

I then think there are a bunch of politically motivated accounts on various online platforms who magnify that to undermine our democratic processes, for various reasons. So I'm just trying to encourage lurkers to think about the evidence.

What is the evidence that any of the other parties (with the possible exception of the SNP) a "just as bad" as the current Conservative party? I don't see it, sorry.

In 91 constituencies the Lib dems were in second place in the last election, often to the tories. Vote for "change" in one of those and children lose any protection from gender ideology.

Many of us have been either holding our noses and voting against the tories or spoiling ballot papers, now Kier has blown that.

How do you think voting for the party that's been in power for the last 13 years is going to make men take women seriously?

It is really quite simple. Those of us who don’t want to spoil our ballots think Labour will be worse. Let’s face it, the Tories have had three female leaders which indicates that women are taken seriously.

How many female leaders has the Labour Party had?

They are not leftist or socialist. In any way.

But they identify as leftist and that's what most important innit.

How do you think voting for the party that's been in power for the last 13 years is going to make men take women seriously?

If they are voted back in despite being a terrible government, Labour will have to ask themselves why. Labour has to learn to listen if they want the landslide votes.

How do you think voting for the party that's been in power for the last 13 years is going to make men take women seriously?

If it was voting for a change I'd understand but voting for the status quo expecting a change makes no sense to me.

A party can dance up and down dressed in red and wagging flags and identifying loudly as left with all the soundbites.

If their policies are anti women, anti child safeguarding, anti BAME and multi culturalism, anti disability, anti religious tolerance and pro male supremacist exclusion and harm of women in the name of men's sexual rights? And pro corrupt lobbies and colonalist tactics, classist and snobbish, anti democratic?

They are not leftist or socialist. In any way. They are just busy kidding themselves while quite liking the image and the feelz. And hoping people will believe the illusions is a time limited thing, with that trust currency and tribal habit now being more or less squandered and spent.

Labour’s economic policies are pretty woeful anyway and then this gender stuff on top

I am so tired of this tribal 'GOOD PEOPLE vote x with the GOOD TRIBE even when the good tribe is utterly fucking them over and doing things that no decent people could possibly stand behind' and anyone who doesn't vote Like Me and My Tribe Is Bad.

Some of us are capable of making decisions not tribally based.

I think lots of people want to believe Labour/Starmer are "just as bad" so they can feel reassured in doing what they want to, e.g. voting for a bunch of venal, self serving liars because they are the right wing option.

I think you want to believe that all the people - mostly women - saying they will vote Tory over this issue were closet Tory voters all along, and have just been waiting for an excuse to show their true right wing colours.

That’s bollocks as far as I’m concerned and I’d put good money on it being the case for many here. Not least because I think Labour are WORSE because of their untrustworthiness, constant slippery behaviour in terms of some Labour MPs and, in the case of others, their out-and-out misogyny. It sticks in my craw to say this but I trust the Tories more on this issue.

I wouldn’t say I’m right wing, I believe in free, good universal education, free and good universal health care and a society that takes care of its weaker members so they have a good and dignified standard of living.

But I also believe in the immutability of biological sex and the importance of women’s rights, spaces, safeties and identities. And I’m prepared for that to be the deciding factor on how I vote.

So if that makes me “right wing” in your book well, I guess I’ll just have to find a way to live with your disapproval

So sorry to hear this @Clabony and @Yesnosorryplease - its an awful situation and one that we experienced in my family too. I find it offensive too that people can be so dismissive of waits for urgent biopsies. Time is of the essence when dealing with possible malignancy; its a good use of resources if clinicians can treat quickly and prevent further intensive treatment.

Not sure why people keep bellyaching over people voting Tory. It has been said time and time again that many of us spoil our ballot, and have been doing for some time.

As far as I'm concerned I vote for a local MP, not necessarily a party, and going forward I'll vote for any candidate that I like and can trust on issues that matter to me. Currently, I have a Labour MP, Kim Johnson ( Liverpool, Riverside). She''s awful. Full on TWAW. Mermaids logo on her twitter account. Refers to Israel as a 'fascist' state; refuses to meet with her constituents on the issue of single sex spaces and services. Performs terribly in the house and on the 'Women and Equalities committee'.

There is not a chance I'll be voting for her.

I'm so sorry you have been through that. Sadly you aren't an isolated case. I've a family member go through similar and it is a malignancy, still waiting for a surgery date.
This all needs sorting out as a priority. Not weasel words.

Women are used to being ignored, being talked over, having to take up less space. Arrogant men overlook us wise women, quietly getting on with our lives. They think our rights are so unimportant that we should give them away.

I am one of those women and I am sick of it now.

Stupid men with their stupid opposite meanings for words letting men like Lia Thomas strip off in front of young, embarrassed women, letting men like Eddie Izzard switch from boy to girl mode by putting on pink lipstick, letting male rapists into female prison cells and showers and on and on it goes. Every stupid man tripping over themselves in their rush to prop up other stupid men.

I am sick of playing pretend and I am sick of men telling me what to think, do and say. I will vote tory as a protest vote against Labour over this single issue. Something has to happen to make them take notice of us.

Are you genuinely comparing my wait for five months, to have a biopsy that had to be performed to find out if I had a malignancy that would require further surgery and follow up treatments, that should have taken less than a fortnight, to people waiting 3 years for free cosmetic surgery which is poorly evidenced and pretty much being performed because it was requested?

How offensive can you get.

PS, hrt stands for hormone REPLACEMENT and therefore, anyone taking cross sex hormones is not taking hrt.